'97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

[Folly77]

I have a 1997 Johnson 115. A few weeks ago anytime I tried to get on a plane it would surge terribly (it would run fine at idle). I changed the plugs and replaced the water separator. The filter looked real bad ? very rusty and full of junk but the fuel looked clean (no water). So I took it out Memorial Day and it ran worse. Had to pump the primer bulb to keep the motor running and the no oil alarm started sounding. I shut it down, waited about 15 minutes and tried again. Same thing happened. Finally got towed back to the landing.

So I?m assuming it?s the VRO/fuel pump. Is it worth trying to rebuild the pump or should I bite the bullet and get a new pump? Is there anything else I should check? The fuel hoses are less than a year old and it?s an internal tank so no vent issues.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

Well you have 3 choices.
Replace the OMS pump (most expensive)
Rebuild the fuel side and premix your fuel.(least expensive)
Change to a new premix pump and premix your fuel. Way Less than $100 and you know you have a new pump.

Choice is yours. There are many threads on this subject if you do a search.

 

[Folly77]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

OK?checked compression this w/e and it doesn?t appear that I burnt up the engine . Used a 6 gal tank w/ premix and still had to pump the primer to keep it going and the ?no oil? alarm sounded after about 2 ? 3 minutes. So before I bite the bullet, a couple of questions for the experts:

1) Is there anything else that could cause these symptoms besides a bad OMS pump (e.g., pulse limiter)?
2) Fuel pump assy is part #5007420 for this o/b; any ideas on the part # if I decide to replace just the fuel pump side and premix?

The repair manual (which btw refers to the pump as a VRO2) covers testing the pump w/ pressure and vacuum gauges which I don?t have so I?m hoping that the symptoms are obvious. I?m no mechanic (I know, I know?DUH!) but replacing the pump looks pretty easy.

Thanks

 

[Chris1956]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

You might look on the crowleymarine.com web site and find the exploded parts picture for your fuel system. My '98 Johnny 150HPV6 has a "Vapor pump" in addition to the OMS pump. Perhaps your motor has one and it is bad. Also did you clean the main fuel strainer under the airbox?

 

[Folly77]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

Thanks Chris. I did check and clean the strainer. It had a little rust in it but didn't look too bad. I checked out the diagram for my o/b but don't see a vapor pump. A vapor separator is listed in the description section but is not shown on the picture. And the Seloc repair manual I have doesn't talk about the vapor pump or separator at all. Any thoughts on how I might check it?

 

[Chris1956]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

I have never had to work on my '98 Johnny, but according to the crowleymarine.com parts diagram for your motor, the vapor pump(item 37 on fuel bracket page) is located above the vapor seperator. It is a square device with some vacuum and fuel hoses. it likely has a rebuild kit, although I did not see a listing for it

 

[Folly77]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

Yeah...see it now but since the repair manual doesn't cover it and I don't want to take it to a shop just yet I decided to remove the OMS pump and take it apart. First thing I found was that the air motor diaphragm was not screwed into the piston stem. Just fell out when I took it apart. Everything else looked in good shape. So I carefully put it all back together (I'll order a overhaul kit tomorrow).

Is the diaphragm being loose enough for the pump to quit functioning? Is there a good chance that if I overhaul it will work? It got dark so didn't have enough light to reinstall and try it. Will try tomorrow.

 

[Folly77]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

So I hooked up a tank of premix but left the oil line attached. Ran it in the driveway for about 10 minutes. It ran without having to pump the primer bulb and the "no oil" alarm never went off. So the wife said lets take it out for a test run. The ole johnny ran great so I guess the air motor diaphragm being unscrewed was the problem.

I know I probably need to replace the OMS pump or at least overhaul it but it sure was nice to have it run good for a change.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

So I hooked up a tank of premix but left the oil line attached. Ran it in the driveway for about 10 minutes. It ran without having to pump the primer bulb and the "no oil" alarm never went off. So the wife said lets take it out for a test run. The ole johnny ran great so I guess the air motor diaphragm being unscrewed was the problem.

I know I probably need to replace the OMS pump or at least overhaul it but it sure was nice to have it run good for a change.

Glad to hear it.

 

[Jetsgary]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

Gentlemen:

I had exactly the same problem (have to keep the primer pumped and oil alarm sounds) last weekend while fishing offshore. Maiden run for '09, Ran fine on the way out, started and ran fine a few times moving between fishing spots, then problem started.

When we got home, I took the inline filter off to inspect it and it was basically empty. I had expected some gas in it. I suspected the fuel pump, but wasnt sure why the oil alarm would sound.

For some background, I had changed the fuel filter/water separator before starting this year, and we added about 25 gals of fresh gas plus enzyme treatments on last years gas (stabilizer was used when we winterized it).

I admit upfront that i am not a mechanic and much of what you were saying is going over my head. What is an OMS pump, where would i find the diaphram you're discussing? I looked at the diagram on crowleys.marine and didn't see anything called either of those topics. Since i saw electrical wires going into the what looked to me like a fuel pump was wondering if there is a fuse for that?

Any help is appreciated before i drop suspected big bucks on a mechanic to look it over.

Thanks
Gary

 

[Folly77]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

Hey Gary,

I'm no mechanic either so your best bet is to check out this link to get a better idea of what everyone is talking about:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

You need to tell us yr/make/hp of your o/b but from your symptoms it sounds like you have basically the same VRO/OMS that I have. After visiting the link listed above and before you take it to a mechanic, you may want to pull the pump. Mine was held on w/ three screws and four hoses...really easy to remove. And w/ a service manual, pretty easy to disassemble so you may want to give that a try.

Also, you want to check your compression if you ran it w/ the "no oil" alarm for any length of time.

 

[Jetsgary]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

Thanks for replying so quickly.

The outboard is a 1997 Johnson 200 OceanRunner.

We're going to tackle it tomorrow (although we'd rather be fishing), i'll definitely check out the link.

Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[ezeke]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

These links to Bill Kelly's site can help if you don't have the factory manual. See the first for differences between years.

The repair kits service all pumps, but only the gasoline side is repairable. If the oil side or electronics fail replace the pump, otherwise it makes a powerful pre-mix pump by closing off the oil side and disconnecting the electronics.

http://www.maxrules.com/graphics/vropics/vrodrawings.gif

http://www.maxrules.com/graphics/vropics/VRO-1.JPG

http://www.maxrules.com/graphics/vropics/VRO-2.JPG

http://www.maxrules.com/graphics/vropics/VRO-3.JPG

http://www.maxrules.com/graphics/vropics/VROflowchart.JPG

http://www.maxrules.com/graphics/vropics/VROflowchart.JPG

 

[Jetsgary]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

Thanks!

Tomorrow should be an interesting day.

 

[Jetsgary]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

Well, we decided to work cheap to most expensive solution to try to fix it.
First replaced the inline filter, same problem.
Then the exposed fuel line and primer bulb, same problem.
Then fuel line from water separator to primer bulb, same problem.
Then fuel line from tank to water separator, same problem.

Removed the Fuel pump and took it apart using all the help and diagrams we received from you all. Cleaned it up and noticed that the oil piston looked worn, tried to get rebuild kits, no one had in stock for either the air motor or fuel side.

Bit the bullet and bought and installed new fuel pump assembly, NO MORE PROBLEM. It runs rough at idle, so next we'll tackle trying to smooth it out.

Any suggestions for that are greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

 

[ezeke]

Re: '97 Johnson 115 VRO/fuel pump?

Just in case anyone else wants those repair kits for the gasoline side, the man who provides all those links that I listed is also one who sells the kits: http://www.maxrules.com/fixomcvro.html

BTW, If anyone wants a proper burial for a VRO2 or OMS used pump, send it my way and I will take care of it.