A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

[njlarry]

With all the recent posts about draining cooling systems and the repeated reports of boaters only draining and never having a problem I thought some might find my experience from last winter helpful.
Last fall was my first with an I/O set up. I warmed the engine up on muffs for 20 minutes. The engine was of course not under load but the temp guage said it was at op temp. I switched the cooling water to a bucket of antifreeze and pumped five gallons of antifreeze thru. Thought that was it. Luckily I read a post here by Don warning to drain first along with probing. So I opened the petcocks and out came crystal clean pure water!! from the block and the manifolds. (Thanks Don for saving my bacon) Next I removed the thermostat housing and poured two gallons of pink Rv AF in.
Now the mystery; This spring I opened the same drains and instead of pink AF, dark water came out. An antifreeze tester showed my engine was only protected to +10'F. Where did the AF go? The boat was inside an unheated enclosed storage building.
Now the miracle; despite whatever I did wrong the engine had no freeze damage. From now on, I will always add AF after draining.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

The little bit of the antifreeze that got in may have just been enough to keep it slushy instead of freezing solid.
Glad you had good luck! Too many cracked block posts around here come spring.

This is my first year in a long time owning an outboard.Winterizing it was fun!I don't miss my I/O as much anymore...

 

[njlarry]

Re: A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

That's likely what happened, but where did the two gallons of pink AF go?

 

[Fish n Geer]

Re: A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

Kinda like Gary H saving my butt on the rv hot water heater.My luck something expensive would have resulted! I love this place and all the knowledge its members have to share.

 

[dmcb]

Re: A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

You were indeed lucky. And lucky to have Don.
Now something I preach and I know Don S does also.
Get a manual and follow it exactly. A manual from the mfg. not a knock off manual.
All will tell you to drain. None will tell you to do what you did.
The ones that say to then add antifreeze is for corrosion protection, not for freeze protection.
Many say this and I will also because it is true.
Air doesn't freeze and break anything.
That is why all manuals say to drain the engine.
I have been boating for over 50 years and had inboards for 47 of those years.
I have always winterized my boats and I boat in fresh water so the corrosion protection wasn't necessary.
In all those years I have NEVER added a drop of antifreeze to my engines.
From 22 feet to 46 feet.
And I have never had anything freeze and break.
When you try to use plain antifreeze, the theromostat can close when the cold antifreeze hits it. Even if the engine was warmed up. It isn't like a car that circulates the same water unless it has fresh water cooling.
It isn't under load and may not be warm enough to keep it open.
If you drained and used two gallons, it likely wasn't enough to fill the engine.
Why did you get water in the spring? Good question and the only answer I can think of is the drain was plugged and all the water didn't get out when you opened the drains.

That brings up something very important. Behind every plug is water. If you ran in low water and sucked some sand in your cooling system for example, it can plug these drains. Maybe after some water comes out.
Poke something in the holes to be sure nothing is blocking the flow of water.
A small screw driver or wire. Anything.
Why did it come out in the spring? Well it froze and maybe moved what was plugging it. Perhaps that was the dark water.

If you follow the manual and do that simple thing, the engine will drain.
If there is no water, nothing will freeze and break.

Pouring antifreeze in on top of water won't give you protection as you found in the spring when you saw water.
Note that as you just said you were going to do the same thing again this year.

You did drain enough. Had you not a shiny new engine would be in your bilge.
Its really simple as that guys.
Follow the manual to the letter and all will be golden.

Btw, I do have first hand knowledge of what I am talking about. A friend in Paradise Mich (darn cold country) replaced two nice low hour 350 Chev. engines in his boat. He power loaded it and dug some sand doing it.
He drained (he thought) and dumped in antifreeze. It didn't drain and he didn't poke the holes.
They found the sand when they replaced the engines. Not much water though. It went out the cracks.
Doug

 

[Lou C]

Re: A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

You drained the engine drains but what about the big hose that goes from the thermo housing to the water pump? A lot of water comes out when you pull that hose off. So that water diluted the pink stuff you put in, and sediment in the block may have mixed with the af and darkened it. Since your freeze protection level was greater than your lowest temp, you escaped damage. I do drain and backfill, but I use the more expensive -100 just to allow for the fact that it's possible that some water may not drain. If you are in a freshwater region, the AF is really optional, here in the salt pond we need all the help we can get. And the new thermo housing I installed in 2003 shows very little corrosion compared to the old one, so maybe the AF does help with cast iron corrosion in salt water areas.

 

[dmcb]

Re: A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

You drained the engine drains but what about the big hose that goes from the thermo housing to the water pump?

Yes on some models/makes this is necessary.
Also some have water cooled power steering fluid coolers.
That is why the advise to have a shop manual when you do these things.
Unless you like to maybe protect your investment.
Have a shop manual or let the pros do it.
Read the sticky post on winterizing by Don S. See what he says about a manual.
Doug

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

I always pulled the big hose off the water pump and the riser hoses,then pulled the hose to the steering cooler and blow air thru it.Filled all the hoses with AF just to be sure.Open all drains real quick until i seen the AF come out.
I did all of that after draining everything by the manual.Maybe overkill but never had freeze damage...

 

[backwater dawg]

Re: A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

I agree with dmcb 100%---I have a pair of 1988 merc 260's---and have NEVER dumped AF in the motors---correct---water freezes and air doesnt--and about digging out the sand thats behind the drain plugs---IT'S ALLWAYS THERE---when I go to drain the motors I bring a small wrench to loosen the petcocks and a small flat screwdriver to shove in the holes and theres ALLWAYS sand that comes out after you think it's drained--pull the power steering hose and the therm hose and any other one you think MAY have water in it---good luck Steve

 

[njlarry]

Re: A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

couple of clarifications; Both hoses from the raw water pump were drained and the manifolds had both end caps removed for draining. The manual was followed except that Af was added for extra safety. Air may not freeze but any water left will.
My mystery is; where did the two gallons of AF go?

 

[joed]

Re: A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

That pink RV AF if I am not mistaken is for water systems not engine blocks. It probably doesn't have rust inhibitors etc. in it. Probably just turned dark from the dirt, rust etc in the block. I have used the blue stuff in toilets in a cottage only to come in the winter and find it frozen. I think the good anti freezing part if it evaporated out.

 

[eddy pons]

Re: A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

done a lot of winterizations in my time,,,depending wich pink stuff you used,the one made for the motor does have rust inhibitors and to the surprice it turns clear after the winter is over, when i started the boats back on in the spring what came out did not look pink , so surprized i was that i had to taste it and (yep) it did taste like that nasty stuff,,we boat in salt water,we must use antifreeze,,,I have also taken many motors apart and left the in open air during the winter months, you should see all the crap that grows in the water ports,another reson to put a/f,,got it down to a sciance 3.0L=3gallons,5.7L=4gallons,7.4L=6gallons all statick fill,,,and yes if you take a drain plug out you must poke, lots of crap clogs the drains,,,

 

[njlarry]

Re: A Winterization Mystery/Miracle

Joed and Eddie may have solved the mystery. I only added two gallons and some pockets of water may have mixed with it. I may have had the boat in a bow up position although even the port block drain aft had the same dark water come out in the spring. This year I drained bow up, down and level ( the manual just says level) and added Auto 50/50 antifreeze. Thanks Eddie, I need to add another two gallons.