Advice for Following seas - Sea ray sundancer 260

[areoseek]

Hi guys, I'm asking for some honest advice, and maybe a fix for the way I handle large following seas in this boat. This is the only boat i've had that Gets pushed sideways so easily by a following sea.
I'm up in lake erie, and I've encountered this a few time while running from a storm. My smaller boat with an outboard will ride the tops of the waves just fine and remain on course, but this sundancer will sink into the crest and get pushed sideways even with nearly full throttle.

Am I doing something wrong? Is she overloaded?
I've been boating lake erie since I was a kid and this is the first vesell that done this so severley.


The most recent instance was the end of last season, probably 4-6 footers, with a south wind, very far apart (weird for erie). I had to FIGHT at FULL throttle to keep her straight. I'd go from 20mph to 5 like THAT.

-_- It's been bothering me all winter.
Thanks.

 

[fhhuber]

Basically you were in conditions nearing the limits of survival. Don't do that.

 

[burtonrider11]

Basically you were in conditions nearing the limits of survival. Don't do that.

Could not agree more. A 260 is probably much more at home in 2-3 footers. Sometimes you can just get caught in rough water without warning. However, if you aren't using the NOAA forecast, you are just asking for it. It's not 100%, but I ALWAYS check it prior to heading out.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/greatlakes/?c=int

 

[fhhuber]

Not anywhere near as big a lake... and not sure how it happened...

but I found a body floating yesterday.

Don't let the next one found be yours.

Know your boat's limitations.

USE proper safety equipment.

 

[tpenfield]

6 footers may be too tall and order for the 260, but going sideways does not seem right. How are you trimmed with the outdrive during these instances?

 

[airshot]

I have been a lake erie boater for almost 50 yrs and I understand how she reacts to wind. Sounds like something is amiss with your trims or throttle settings. I am quite sure your boat will go faster than the rolling waves, if not then you have other issues. I own a 22' and have been on the big lake in similar weather, not planned that way, but it just happens sometimes without much warning. First thing in a following sea your boat speed needs to match wave speed or very close to it. By using your throttle you can adjust your boat speed to keep up with wave speed or slightly faster or slower to allow your boat to float or skim over the waves as you go along. It is important to keep adjusting your throttle to keep up with the waves, in this way you will not get trapped in the trough between waves. It can be a rather hairy, and scary situation to be in so that is why we need to watch the weather forecast more closely. I do not recommend going out in this type of wave condition but at times we get caught with our pants down so to speak, so maintaining your boat speed to the speed of the waves is very critical, it is not safe to get trapped in the wave trough as this is how boats get rolled over (capsize). Hope this helps, if I can be of further help feel free to ask

 

[thumpar]

The boat should be more than enough to handle it. I have been in 4-6 footers with 60mph wind in my 20'. Are you hitting the waves at an angle? I grew up on my grandpas 17' reinell in the straight of juan de fuca. We did just fine.

 

[bruceb58]

This is where it would be dangerous to have something like Smart Tabs on your boat. Hopefully you don't have those. If you do, remove them and put Bennets on. One of the reasons I would never put Smart Tabs on any boat that I own.

I keep my bow up so I don't get stuffed into the next wave. I try to go a hair faster that the waves themselves. You don't want to go slower. My experience is only in the ocean off the coast of southern California...not in lakes. Not to say I don't boat in lakes but typically the lakes I go in don't have waves bigger then 3 feet. Maybe your waves are closer together which makes it tougher.

If you are in seas that make you want to stuff the bow on every wave, try turning a bit and take them more on your quarter. You will have to almost tack down wind like a sailboat that way but will be way safer. Try not to go surfing down the face of the wave. Turn to go down at more of a 45 degree angle as your speed builds up and then turn toward the wave in front of you as your speed drops off.

I would go out in conditions not quite as intense and practice. I know that sounds weird but knowing what to do when it gets worse is important. The worse I have ever been in is off the coast of Ventura CA in a sailboat with a spinnaker up and we got broached and knocked on our side. I almost fell off the boat. Make sure everyone has a lifejacket on in conditions like that.

 

[Scott Danforth]

which motor do you have in your 260? 5.0 and bravo? 5.7 and bravo? 7.4 and bravo? twins? Where is your drive(s) trimmed?

 

[Stumpalump]

Good topic. Just remember "Up". Up on the tabs, up on the trim, up on the bow and on the throttle so you are driving up the swell or so just the very bow is over it. . Following seas send folks to the bottom because as you have seen you get out of whack really easy. Do not try and out run it. It's called a following sea because it follows you in. Let it follow you and don't try to out run it. What happened to us in a 26 footer on much smaller lake was a gust from behind caught us just as the swell had our rudder in the air. No rudder, no steering. That boat came around sidways so fast that none of us expected it. We broached but besides some medical bills we were OK. The seas were nothing like you describe and it still got us. I was crew and paying close attention but had nothing to offer. So be extra carfull if it's a following sea with gusty wind.

 

[JoshOnt]

Either you have an issue with your boat or the way you are driving it. I have been in 3-4' waves with a 15.5' boat and while scary ( even more so when it was the first day out on it) you should be able to handle it. I would say that 6' is really pushing your boat to what I would consider safe. No what I did was not near safe but when I checked weather I did not realize where I had it set to, said no storm but I was a ways away from where my phone thought I was. I digress, you should be able to depending on the wave pattern either tack like a sail boat or should be able to go with the waves but slightly faster. You will have to watch your speed very carefully and make sure to never go in the trough of the wave sideways that is a good way to get killed. I was on a sailboat (10' dingy) that did that in 2' waves and we capsized very quickly and I am sure your boat would not fair too well in a similar situation but with 6' waves.

 

[airdvr1227]

Sounds as if this is a new boat for you. What comes to mind first is the possibility that she is way too heavy or over propped. No way she should break through the wave crests like that. What's your speed like at WOT? What RPM's are you getting at WOT?

 

[areoseek]

which motor do you have in your 260? 5.0 and bravo? 5.7 and bravo? 7.4 and bravo? twins? Where is your drive(s) trimmed?

5.7sbc(mercruiser 260) with an alpha one.

Boat IS realitivley new to me, Got it june of last year.

At near WOT I'm running about 22 mph on the gps. Seems a bit slow to me, However I have a suspicion that i'm under-propped by the previous owner. Due to the fact that at full WOT i'm pushing 5000rpm, and unless my tach is lying, That's about redline for a SBC. i'm thinking I can go with a more agressive pitch to keep the rpm's down.


i'll admit I did not know to keep the bow trimmed all the way up with the tabs, I was never taught that by my Dad. I was also under the impression that I was to floor it to outrun the waves and keep them from crashing over the stern.

As for being caught out there in the first place, I was aware of the storm, I was going out to give a buddy a jump and It took longer than anticipated and the storm hit about a mile out of the chanell. Luckily he has a faster boat that I and got in before me, because he would've been in a dangeroius situitation (being in a 17 footer).

I'm always open to boating advice, that's why I asked. Please keep the thoughts coming! I'm learning alot here!

 

[thumpar]

22mph seems low. I wonder if you are hitting the rev limiter at 5k. You should be running around 4500rpm WOT.

 

[Scott Danforth]

You don't outrun the waves, you ride on top of them so you don't dive into the trough.

5000 rpm is high, 4600 is where is should be propped. 22mph is low. And the 5.7 and alpha is not the ideal combo for the boat

 

[areoseek]

You don't outrun the waves, you ride on top of them so you don't dive into the trough.

5000 rpm is high, 4600 is where is should be propped. 22mph is low. And the 5.7 and alpha is not the ideal combo for the boat

I belive the 5.7 and the alpha was factory for it. 1986 sundancer 26'


I wasnt aware that there was a rev limiter on this engine. I've gone nearly to 6k on the tach by accident once and No limiter kicked in. I have a feeling my tach may be off.

 

[bruceb58]

I wonder if you are hitting the rev limiter at 5k.

He won't since he doesn't have one.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

We live and boat on Erie. I have come to love all the wind and weather reports and predictions available and know how this girl can kill you faster than a bullet. I was wondering if you got caught by a freak storm or wind or knew you were going to find bad water? You were going out to help a friend in need. That is very good, but, and a big but, when you saw white caps you might have called the Coast Guard and let them do what they do for a living unless it was a dire scenario and they were hours away. I certainly would without a doubt. What were they doing out there in a small boat? I have heard of boaters I know that will not call the Coast Guard for one reason or another, usually because they drink on the water and that is a big no no in Canada. They are idiots and told them not to call me at home to come and get them.

As far as your vessel running correctly, it isn't. That's a fairly heavy boat compared to some that have no problems in 1 or 2 meter waves, we will Walleye fish tournaments in 4 footers on the 26' Grew with no real problem, anything calling for more than 1 meter and 1/2 and I'm on land. Get everything looked at by a seasoned marine pro before this years launch.

Just reading the replies here I have learned more, again, thanks all.

 

[boatman37]

22mph is very slow. my 1986 250 with a merc 260 and aplha one gen 1 tops out at about 32mph and 4000 rpm with a 14.5x17 aluminum 3 blade prop. you should be pretty close to that. i think mine calls for a 16x16

also, the previous owner of my boat bought it new and kept it on erie and had said he was in 5' ers with it before and it was fine although he would never want to do it again on urpose

 

[fhhuber]

You don't want the waves breaking over the stern... and you don't want the nose plunging into the next wave as you go down a wave face. So... you either "surf" on the face or you ride the uphill backside slope, constantly trying to drive uphill, but being sure NOT to top the crest.

You can take a small angle going up the backside in order to find best engine power setting and kind of crab along sideways but staying on that same wave. Then if your engine "likes" an rpm that is faster than the wave you can still NOT top the crest.

Trying to surf the face would likely rip a swim platform off the boat if you have one. Not usually a good idea but they had some neat little surfing kayaks when I visited Hawaii. And they're pretty good at surfing the traditional long boats.