Advice needed!

[matth121]

Hey guys, looking at a new to me boat, but i need some questions answered before I think about buying it. From what i know, and this might not be exactly accurate, its a 79 sunray fiberglass hull- 18ft with, and this i know, a model 400 3.0l OMC engine. heres the thing- i'm told it will run all day long at full rpm with no issues,7200rpm is what he tells me- the problem is when you put it into gear, where it will bog down and lose all spark/power. He's been told it's the 2 microswitches involved with the shift linkage thats at the rear of the motor- theres a pic of an engine on this site where these can be seen when the engine is googled, but when actually on the site- pic doesnt load- anyways- aluminum looking piece mounted behind the engine that has the shifter cable attached to it. theres 2 microswitches there that interact with the shift linkage. from what i'm told- these are killing the spark when being shifted into gear. does that sound right? can anyone with experience in this area weigh in? the history of the boat is that it ran great but with a small valve tick for 2 or 3 summers- owner bought a reconditioned head and put it on, set timing, and had carbs cleaned over the winter- when started up- the tick was gone and you could apparently barely hear it running, but thats when this happened, as i said- runs perfect until shifted into gear. ideas and thoughts please,
thanks
Matt

 

[Bondo]

Re: Advice needed!

Hey guys, looking at a new to me boat, but i need some questions answered before I think about buying it. From what i know, and this might not be exactly accurate, its a 79 sunray fiberglass hull- 18ft with, and this i know, a model 400 3.0l OMC engine. heres the thing- i'm told it will run all day long at full rpm with no issues,7200rpm is what he tells me- the problem is when you put it into gear, where it will bog down and lose all spark/power. He's been told it's the 2 microswitches involved with the shift linkage thats at the rear of the motor- theres a pic of an engine on this site where these can be seen when the engine is googled, but when actually on the site- pic doesnt load- anyways- aluminum looking piece mounted behind the engine that has the shifter cable attached to it. theres 2 microswitches there that interact with the shift linkage. from what i'm told- these are killing the spark when being shifted into gear. does that sound right? can anyone with experience in this area weigh in? the history of the boat is that it ran great but with a small valve tick for 2 or 3 summers- owner bought a reconditioned head and put it on, set timing, and had carbs cleaned over the winter- when started up- the tick was gone and you could apparently barely hear it running, but thats when this happened, as i said- runs perfect until shifted into gear. ideas and thoughts please,
thanks
Matt

Ayuh,.... It's a Huge Money-pit,.... Keep Lookin', that guy's Full of Poo....

 

[matth121]

Re: Advice needed!

Ayuh,.... It's a Huge Money-pit,.... Keep Lookin', that guy's Full of Poo....

k, the price is quite reasonable though and hes pretty upfront about the fact its not working right. even if the motors pooched- couldnt i find a decent replacement for it easy enough? for what he's asking, i'm finidng it hard not to buy it. even if i had to double what he's asking to get it right, IMO, it's still a good buy, but ya i might be way wrong. let me know what you think

edit- i also near **** when he told me he was running it at 7200rpm with no load, who knows....

 

[airdvr1227]

Re: Advice needed!

You should buy it, knowing all that's wrong with it and attempt to fix it correctly no matter how much it costs.

 

[matth121]

Re: Advice needed!

no matter how much it costs eh??? sounds like someones trying to be funny. seriously, any thoughts... is it best left where its at? whats a good 3L go for? lots of new parts, wiring, spare block and head go with it....how bad could it be???

 

[perna00]

Re: Advice needed!

I'm not trying to be rude, but look at the facts. The previous owner had the boat and liked it. Enough to buy a new head and get it installed (not the cheapest repair). Right after he puts that much cash & time into it, he wants to sell it over "a few bad sensors". It doesn't make sense and is illogical. I have a feeling you'll still buy the boat but I believe you'll find out it is more problems, end up working on it, then selling it out as parts, and finally break even on the cash you spend on it minus all your work and time. You'll have to keep us updated on the status. Good luck with your decision/project.

 

[matth121]

Re: Advice needed!

ok, i hear you. heres the thing- since he put the head on and did the other work, he spent a whole summer trying to get it back to how it was before he swapped the heads, and just claims he doesnt have time or desire to work on it anymore- he's had mechanics test the boat on the water and they're telling him the switches are the problem- so let me ask this- what do those switches do- he explained it as "they're supposed to momentarily cut spark to allow easier shifting of gears and then apply full power for a good hole shot", the shift linkage contacts them while changing gears, when the problem occurs....does that make any sense?? i'm not planning on buying this without doing a compression test on it, and if what he claims is true, that it will run all day out of gear....how bad can the engine really be? Should i be looking at the outdrive?? is that more likely the cause of the problems? i dunno- just looking for advice. thanks, and no worries about being rude...i might need a good talking to, lol

i just happened to find this in the 2nd sticky at the top of this forum- shift interupt system...almost seems to be exactly what he said..have a look
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=1930449#post1930449

 

[perna00]

Re: Advice needed!

I don't know about you but if I had just replaced the head, worked on it, and had a mechanic check it out; I defininately wouldn't just turn around and sell it because of "lack of interest". Would you replace the head gasket on your car which runs perfectly now and then sell it just because the alternator went bad? It is sounds too good to be true. . .

I bought a boat that just ran rough because the "gas sat too long over the season". I am now $1,500 into it still finding problems. Just think about it.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Advice needed!

so let me ask this- what do those switches do-

those switches do nothing to make it run better
their job is to make it run worse, so the drive gears can disengage

and then apply full power for a good hole shot", t

that's pretty funny, ....and totally wrong

those switches only function during shifting. They can cause power issues if one stays activated after shifting, so to eliminate that as a cause of any power or performance issues, a marine mechanic will simply unplug them and if they were causing any issues, the boat would return to 100% power and performance. That is done routinely as a test on OMC sterndrives with an ESA system.

So, obviously as others are telling you, the seller is full of crap.

If he revved the engine to 7200 rpm, the engine is permanently damaged. 4600 rpm is the max rpm that engine should spin.

Go look for a boat that has a Mercruiser Alpha One and a Chevy V6 or V8 and is sold as a good runner. And water test it before buying. You won't save any money by buying a project.

 

[matth121]

Re: Advice needed!

ok, gotcha, but what hes describing sounds like the switches might be staying activated, but yeh, if it's that easy..whys he not getting it fixed himself. would u be able to shift and operate normally without these switches plugged in? the whole problem seems to be when shifting into gear...i'm sure you guys are getting sick of telling me the obvious, but humor me please. lets say i own it and thats what my problem is? and how come no ones mentioned replacement engines.... if a boats in decent shape...couldnt a problem engine be swapped out. again, i know the advice is leave it, but just go with it for a min, tell me what you think- other than leave it- which is looking like i will

 

[perna00]

Re: Advice needed!

Just a thought, but maybe he thinks your an idiot and the entire drive is shot and not able to be turned because gearing is binded stalling out the engine every time. Try putting it in gear and manually turn the engine over a few times to make sure the power can transfer to the prop. If he is trying to scam you (because any mechanic would know its shot), please beat the $#!& out of him on my behalf for everyone that bought a "near perfect" boat because of a seller's word.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Advice needed!

would u be able to shift and operate normally without these switches plugged in?

the shifter would be somewhat stiff when trying to engage neutral (in water only), but you do not leave the switches unplugged as eventually the shift cables could become stretched and damaged from the additional strain.
I was describing a troubleshooting step (to eliminate the ESA system as a possible cause of low power or poor performance)

79 sunray

The ESA system was not introduced until 1982, so it's probably all b.s. anyways. A 1979 boat didn't even have those switches.
Sunrays are low end, entry level boats with plywood floors and carpet on top.... surprised it is in such great shape at 32 years old.
Did you take an ice pick to the wood stringers or floor?

 

[southkogs]

Re: Advice needed!

Hey Matt: lemme' give you an suppositional from a guy who accidentally did well buying an OMC.

I bought mine a couple of years ago with a bad stern drive (didn't quite know what it was at the time), and had it on the water running in less than two weeks. I've been able to get everything needed to make the boat go, and am going on my third season with it. You're essentially asking, "can I potentially pull it off?" The answer is, "yes, potentially you can make a good go of it."

HOWEVER ... my original purchase price on the boat (which was in immaculate shape for an early 70's boat) was $500. That's all I was willing to risk on a boat with a toasted drive built by an "out of business" manufacturer.

So, the question isn't if you could make it go. You can eventually. The question is how much time and money are you willing to risk on this boat. If it's a few hundred bucks to buy, and you feel like searching for parts and doing the wrench work ... take a shot at it. If he's asking more like $1,500 or $3,000 for this boat - plan another $1,000 or two in parts alone, and look at that risk again. $3,000 will buy a LOT of used boat in the current market - with a working drive.

Good luck with it.

 

[wtsgems]

Re: Advice needed!

Here are a few things you might want to look at.
check the oil and lower hose under the outboard it will have holes cut it it see if there is water in the oil or oil resdue in the hose. pull the lower oil drain plug from the lower unit it is located almost right against the bottom find as long as the top plug is in place you will not lose a lot of lube the plug should have a magnet wipe it off on a old black piece of bed sheet the fileings. will show up better and you can get an idea hhow bad the lower unit is or at least if the other guy hasn't changed it out recently. but if the lower unit is binding up and it has been on tests it will show up in the oil. you can also for aboutt 20 bucks get testing tubes to send out to have the oils checked and tested. you said he was messing with the timing and of course to pull the heads he would have been moving around the wiring. but from the sound of it i would be focusing on the lower unit. does the prop spin freely when in neutral? is there a lot of shavings i said to pull the lower plug but i would pull the upper drain plug to catch some of the lube from both and see how much metal is in it. will the engine die when put in reverse if it dies both in forward and reversed then it could be an electronic problem but if you here a bunch of clank and grinding then you will know the rest of the story. the fact is you can't expect to buy a "classic" without also expecting to have to do some work on it. buyer beware but sometimes that long dirty and greasy skinned knuckles is a reward of its own. want a trouble free perfect working order vehicle buy one under warranty. otherwise be prepared

 

[matth121]

Re: Advice needed!

thanks guys, that what i needed to hear- havent checked the drive oil yet, i just saw the boat for the 1st time yesterday- as for the year, the guy as much told me he didn't know for sure- but its on his paperwork, it must be a few years newer since it does have the ESA system. As for the floor- i didn't pull up the carpet but i'd be very suprised to find wood under there, maybe though. Hes had work done to the drive- it has a brand new rubber gasket, im not sure that means anything. but, yes the prop does spin freely in neutral. I'm pretty sure this problem with dying happens in both forward and reverse but would have to confirm that. i figure i'll check the drive lube and do a compression test on it next weekend, i'll also find out about the floor and see if i can turn it over by hand in gear. Thanks for your thoughts on this guys. will keep you posted on my findings.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Advice needed!

the last 2 digits of the hull ID number are the year (stamped into the fiberglass on transom just below rubrail on starboard side).
If the registration doesn't match, that's a good way to end up with a hot potato (stolen property).
A Service Canada clerk having a bad day can make life difficult if
a) the reg year and hull ID year don't match, or the boat has a hull ID but the reg is showing no hull ID, or
b) the registration is not in the same name as the seller on the bill of sale.

watching the cops seize your new boat would be no fun
$2000?
Go to Quebec in the spring. You can buy a way nicer, water tested boat for $2000 on a trailer.
Go west young man.
I bought my 92 Bayliner in near mint shape with a Merc 3.0 Alpha Gen 2 with a 1 season warranty from a reputable marina in ON for $2500. We took it for a test ride and they even delivered it.

 

[southkogs]

Re: Advice needed!

^^^^^ Bingo! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!

 

[wtsgems]

Re: Advice needed!

Hey if you find the lower unit is ok you might want to look at this link http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=1930449#post1930449
actually fits with what he was saying if it has one

 

[Bondo]

Re: Advice needed!

Hey if you find the lower unit is ok you might want to look at this link http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=1930449#post1930449
actually fits with what he was saying if it has one

Ayuh,... That link is 'bout a Mercruiser Alpha, Not a Stringer 400....

 

[matth121]

Re: Advice needed!

watching the cops seize your new boat would be no fun
$2000?Go to Quebec in the spring. You can buy a way nicer, water tested boat for $2000 on a trailer.
Go west young man.
I bought my 92 Bayliner in near mint shape with a Merc 3.0 Alpha Gen 2 with a 1 season warranty from a reputable marina in ON for $2500. We took it for a test ride and they even delivered it.

wow- nice boat! i don't believe this crap- marina's down here want $2000 for an outboard and thats a 25HP at the most for that price- any boat with a motor would be around $5000 from them, i know their prices are ridiculous but i figured it'd be the same all over the country. Looks like i'll have to take a road trip this spring, where in Quebec. Can you tell me the name of a good marina or used boat dealer, and if I have to drive an extra few hours to ON, that's not a problem either. The boat im looking at is nothing compared to what you have there so looks like i won't be getting that. Thanks for all your thoughts and opinions guys, gonna keep my money in pocket for now and wait for a better opportunity. and on a side note- how the F did u know it was $2000? lol, kinda freaked me out. if it was just a guess, nice one!