Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

[pyrotek]

Hi All,
I have a 98 SeaRay where both sides of the floor near the stern are soft. I did a few small core samples, and the inside is all mush. I estimate about 1.5' x 3' is soft on each side right near the center (not the stringers). Water most likely got in on one side when previous owner kept re-drilling holes that had stripped and never filled them. I don't know how it got in on the other side, which worries me. I see people here always find the rot worse than expected. I'm hoping this is as it appears since its relatively new and I'm quite pissed that a 98 boat is already rotting.

Talked to a local fiberglass guy today and he said only take the top layer of fiberglass off, scrap out the rotted wood and then re-fiberglass. Seems like most people here advise to rip up both layers to check for additional rot. Problem is there is no good way to join the new fiberglass with the existing, since I most likely will not be going to stringers (at least on front/back sides). Any advice how to join this?

As you can see the rest of the boat is in good condition. I'm very concerned with getting the gelcoat to look professional. The non-slip goes to about the last inch which starts wrapping up the side which is glossy. Not sure how to get that non-slip to gloss edge perfect. I'm debating of doing the fiberglass myself, and then bring in for professional gelcoat spray. If I attempt myself, I will only roll.

I may also try to do something creative with the backing since all rain water in the boat drains backwards past a piece of plywood wrapped in carpet. Of course that is rotting because its the stupidest design SeaRay could have ever come up with! Further a few inches of water can collect in the back corners, especially sitting idle on a trailer. I dont know what they were thinking. Any ideas welcome.

Boat is all vinylester which I will use. I'm planning 2 layers of CSM on each side of plywood, and to have 1808 on hand in case its needed. I will fiberglass this fall, and gelcoat next spring.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

Hello:

That is a cockpit liner, rather than the old-style "glass over plywood" floor. You would be able to check the stringers, etc by removing the center section that leads to the engine cover. From within the engine compartment, you should try to get a look at the underside of the liner in the effected areas.

I would tend to agree with your "local fiberglass guy" in approaching this from the top. The trick will be to retain the top surface of the fiberglass by making a clean cut of the effected area. Then you can lay the surface back down and have an easier time matching the original surface, etc. Make sure you get a good look at the underneath surface, etc as you will probably need to add some layers of glass underneath for strength.

I do not think that your boat is "all vinyl ester" . . . probably polyester. VE is typically used as the first layer after the gelcoat on the hull only to provide better osmosis protection.

This will be an interesting repair to watch, as it is one of the first cockpit liner rot issues that I recall seeing. Post lots of pics.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

From what I understand you will have to take the cap off the boat to get to the wood underneath. It might be possible to cut the liner out along the sides and once you have finished you can put it back and and patch the seams.

 

[pyrotek]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

I guess I don't really understand the difference between the construction this type of floor and frisoboater's (and everyone else's). And if I don't have his videos to help, I'm not sure I can do it myself! Although I don't understand what you mean by taking the cap off? The cap is way up towards the top - 3 ft from this area.

Inside the cover area is all gelcoated as well. Preliminary tap tests appear to be strong, but I need to do a more thorough job. Let me better explain what I found earlier this year. When I stepped on the floor, you could hear and feel air push out the screw holes that I believe caused this. I then drilled about five 3/8" holes (not seen) and poured epoxy in, knowing I as going to rip it all out this year. It ate about a quart and eventually filled up. This was a temporary solution, and one that probably will make it impossible to rip the top layer up in that area. I have a feeling I'm not going to be able to salvage the top layer, and I may have made it impossible to inspect a lot of the bottom layer. However I think I am encouraged to hear that I don't need to go through both layers.

Spec sheet says Hull & Deck is "High Performance Vinylester Resin". Previous years were polyester. I believe SeaRay is known for their VE resin.

Keep the opinions coming...

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

What you have is a "tub" construction. The top cap has a tub that sits over a wood floor. Mine has a finished wood floor and no liner. If you were to take my cap off, the deck would stay, and it you took off you cap the deck would come with it, and you would see wood under it. Yours has a much prettier finish, but it harder to work on if you need to replace the deck structure.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

The top image in this picture is what you have. There is a thin fiberglass deck that sits over substructure wood.

Under that liner or "TUB" is plywood that gives it your support. In order to get to the wood, you have to split the hull like this image shows.


Now look at this one. there is no floor molded into this one.

The deck in this type of boat has plywood finished in fiberglass and either carpeted, gel coated, or durabacked.

 

[pyrotek]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

Frisco, if I recall, you had the same carpet covered plywood backing at the stern. Did you do anything special, or do you have draining issues?

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

I need to re-engineer that back piece. I never rebuilt it, and I think it might be a little rotten. That piece is non structural and it really did not need to be replaced, so I left it.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

yup, 'tub' or 'clamshell' construction. Just about every boat company makes them this way now. the changeover started in the late 1980's and by the late 1990's just about all the boat companies had converted to the hull & liner construction.

Most of the restoration treads on this forum have been about the older construction method, very few repairs/restorations on the 'clamshell' boats. I did a repair of my boat last Spring by just removing the center 'hatch' section of the deck. If it needed more extensive restoration, I would have needed to separate the hull from the 'liner'. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=534913

If you have stringer rot, then you may have to take the boat apart . . i.e. separate the 'clamshell' . . . which is a whole process in itself. If the rotted area is localized to the rear portion of the cockpit sole, then you should not have to take the boat apart.

As I said, I think your best bet is to go at it from the top of the floor and make a clean cut, so you can save the top piece of fiberglass.

Post some pictures of the structure underneath, etc., that may help with additional advice.

 

[pyrotek]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

I'm still thinking about how to fix this boat and would like to attempt it in the spring. I have a few questions that I would appreciate some opinions on. My strategy of fixing this boat will make it impossible to seperate the top tub ever again. In fact, I've already done that. Last year I drilled a few holes and poured some epoxy down in to stop it from flexing so much. This was a quick fix I did to try to delay the inevitable.

1. With this construction, is it more likely that the rot does not go through the bottom layer of fiberglass? I can't image the stringers get rotted as easily with this type of construction. I will not have time to remove the engine or do more invasive repairs. I am wondering if I should just put this off again for another year until I get more time. I have problems with the house which needs attention.

2. When I replace it, I'm going to take off the top layer of glass, scoop/chisel out the rotted wood and sand the bottom layer smooth. I'll lay some resin down, maybe one layer of CSM, then the new wood and then start fiberglassing the top layer back on. This will effectively bond the bottom and top layer together. In other words you will never be able to get the "cap or tub" off again. I think this is ok, since its unlikely that can never really come apart.

3. My biggest worry is getting this to look good again. Is there any way to paint this and get it to blend in with the surrounding gelcoat, or do you think gelcoat will look better? The non-slip is some type of sand. It's not a uniform pattern. I will paint/roll the gelcoat.

Thx!

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

I see the challenge in knowing how big an area to cut from the top surface of the floor. Ideally, you would want to expose all of the rotted area and then into 'good wood' a little bit.

I beleive that if you ever wanted to sparate the cockpit liner from the stringer box below it, you may have a shot at it, eventhough you poured epoxy into the gap between them.

The more fiberglass you put into the sub-floor, the less thickness of wood that you will need . . . so plan accordingly. If you can get the top surface to mate well with the edges, then you can finish off the seams with gelcoat and folks may not be able to tell of a repair.

 

[PS94]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

Did yours get water from the screws holding down that carpeted wooden panel on the rear? Mine makes that squishing noise when there's water built up...it's the same year as your ray; but my samples were wet and sound, not rotted.....yet. I'm trying to think of a way to dry out that area on the Port side, so I can glass up the 2 erroneously drilled screw holes that are allowing the water seepage...

 

[pyrotek]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

Did yours get water from the screws holding down that carpeted wooden panel on the rear? Mine makes that squishing noise when there's water built up...it's the same year as your ray; but my samples were wet and sound, not rotted.....yet. I'm trying to think of a way to dry out that area on the Port side, so I can glass up the 2 erroneously drilled screw holes that are allowing the water seepage...

I actually am not to sure where it got all the water from. On the port side (not pictured), there is a small carpeted box that holds junk that gets screwed into the floor. That stripped loose at some point and the PO kept drilling new holes without filling the old. But I was suprised its that rotted from just that. The port side (pictured), I don't know where the water came in at all. But I don't think its as bad on that side. The drainage in this boat is just stupid. Water doesn't drain, it just collects in the back. Eventually when you rock the boat back and forth it will go down into the bilge. Stupid design.

My wood that I dug out was complete mush. When you stepped on one side you could actually feel the air push out the screw holes. I dumped about a total of 1/2 quart of epoxy down on both sides. That's why I'm not sure I'll ever get the top layer apart. I tried drying out my wood after drilling about 1/2" holes. It did absolutely nothing.

Can you buy pre-made fiberglass panels or plastic to lay on top of the plywood and then glue it down with resin? Most of my panels will be flat.

PS94: Let me know what you decide to do with yours.

 

[PS94]

Re: Advice on 98 SeaRay floor repair

I'm thinking, come spring time, mark where the rear panel sits, and cut the top layer of glass off, essentially, strip the top off the floor. see how wet/rotted it is, and proceed from there. if, it's like my samples, just wet, i'll dry it out, and glass the top back on, cover the holes and proceed....if it is rotten, i'll be over in the dry dock.