Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

[goinhungry]

I'm debating picking up an inboard (1975 Penn Yan 23, 350 tunnel drive) and wonder if you all could give me some advice. I've got a '79 Yarcraft I/O, 350 Chevy/OMC, w/ 800 Stringer (had it 1 yr). The ball gears and shaft/gears went, and my mechanic gave me an estimate of $1900, which seems pretty fair, since the cheapest I could find reman'd parts on-line was $1500. I got the Yarcraft for nothin' - really just bought it cause the price I paid was less than the kicker motor on it was worth - and even though it appears to have low hours, I'm concerned that something else could go and I'd be back in the shop. The Penn Yan has been serviced by the guy at the shop for years, so he knows it well, it has 2300 hours on it (yikes ) but has electronic ignition, and all the fishing equip. (4 elec. downriggers, teak mounting boads, rod holders, etc...(prob $1K worth of hardware)) that I've been looking to buy anyway. The interior cabin was all torn out, as the owner was in the process of re-doing it, but he never got around to it, so it would be a bit of work if I wanted it finished. Topside's in fantastic shape - it looks more like a late 80's boat, with brand new full canvas, clean and well maintained everywhere else. Engine comparment looks clean, but it does have an auto carb. on it - the owner said he has a new Roch. 4bbl for it and the mechanic would be installing. It's 10 degrees here now, so it's tough to ask him to start it up, but if I got serious about buying, he would. He's asking 5K for it, but I can probably pick it up for closer to 4K, and my goal is simply to have a great fishing boat that will last 3 years or so, as by that time my kids will be older and probably want a different style of boat, so this is mainly for me and my buddies (they lend me their snowmobiles, I take 'em fishing, that's the deal), so really, finishing the cabin really isn't a huge priority for me. I'm sorry to keep running off at the mouth (keyboard) but I'm really on the fence, and you guys have always provided great knowledge/insight to me in the past, so I'd really value your opinion here. What do you think? It bluebooks at $3500, but with all the options, new canvas, etc., I'd be ok with spending 4K if it lasted me 3-4 yrs. I know nothing's guaranteed, and no one has a crystal ball, but any info on the boat, plus/minus on the drive system, engine, etc., would be GREATLY appreciated. THANKS!!

 

[Bondo]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Look down the main page in this forum,......<br /><br />There was a thread about Tunnel Drives just this week......<br /> Ayuh,.. Well,.. Wrong Forum,......... Here it Is............ <br /><br />I Wouldn't buy 1......

 

[Weirdwalt]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

That boat is not worth $100.00. RUN goinhungry, RUN LIKE THE WIND! You already made the mistake of buying a stringer, why in the world would you buy a tunnel? You have been warned!

 

[goinhungry]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

It's fiberglass, so it's a ton lighter (especially since the cabin's been gutted.. ). How do I post pic's here? I've got a few that might help... thanks!

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Blue Book prices are missleading,but $3500 is not for a boat with a gutted cabin,carb problem, 2300 hours,etc.<br /><br />Redoing the cabin is a 'bit' of work,and if you don't do it,where is any resale value ?<br /><br />I've only seen 2 tunnel drive boats,so I can't advise except to say it doesn't look like much of a step up in popularity from a stringer drive.<br /><br />I'd keep looking.When it's 10 degrees out,LOTS of boats are for sale.<br /><br />DHP

 

[goinhungry]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

I got the Yarcraft for $500 with a late model 9.9HP merc O/B that runs like a champ, so I figured even if it fished one day it was worth it - well I got in a whole season out of it, so I think I'm ok with that choice. I knew the stringer sucked going into it, which is why I'm asking the questions here - so I can make an informed choice! Thanks!!

 

[goinhungry]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

DHP- I think you're absolutely correct re vaule, but here there's a ton of xtras included - the downriggers alone are worth over $1K. How do I post pics, so you guys can give me some better insight?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

It sounds like you're going to buy it,....AnyHow,.. AnyWay,..... No Matter What We Say........ <br /><br />Like WW says,.........<br />

You have been warned!

Pictures have to uploaded to a Web Hosting site,+ then linked to your posts using the buttons on the "Post a Reply" page.............

 

[goinhungry]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Bondo, that's just not true. The reason I'm here is because I'm on the fence - I wouldn't waste everyone's time if that wasn't the case - I hate it when people do that to me. I hear "run like the wind", but I don't hear why. I see a link to another thread about a guy who had a boat that was made by the same manufacturer, but it's entirely different. Would you agree that you could characterize all bayliners in the same way, that they're all the same? Part of the reason I wrote such a long message above was to hopefully give enough info. for people to have to make/give informed advice. I've heard nothing to the effect of, "that motor is good/bad in general, and here's why..." or, "inboards handle worse, but have the following attributes....", or, "here's what to look at when looking at an inboard to buy to be sure there aren't major issues...", etc. - no one has said anything like that. When buying the yarcraft I knew that stringers sucked because guys on this board told me that generally, that was the case and that parts were hard to find and expensive, so I knew that going in and when making my choice, and that's why I'm fine with the decision that I made, even though it only lasted one season. I got a great outboard for $500, and a fishing boat for 20+ trips that otherwise would have cost hundreds a day to either rent/charter. I'm just not getting the same type of feed-back here, and I guess I'm frustrated that there's a rush to judgment that I've made up my mind already when I'm asking for help as to knowledge on the particulars of these types of boats/engines, etc., that will help me make up my mind. I'm not upset, but wonder if there can be some constructive knowledge passed here, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[Weirdwalt]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

If it has 1K worth of stuff, then just buy the stuff. That way you won't have a junk hull to deal with.

 

[goinhungry]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Boy walt, that's insightful and constructive. How do you know it's a junk hull, have you seen it? Bondo, being near Lake Ontario, I'd expect that you might have soem good knowledge on this type of boat, at they're used alot on the lake, and that's one of the reasons I'm looking at this type/style, but I don't know if you've heard anything about them in your experiences...

 

[Bondo]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

I see a link to another thread about a guy who had a boat that was made by the same manufacturer, but it's entirely different.

That link goes to a thread about " Tunnel Hulls ",........<br />And,... The boat in Your Question is a,...................." Tunnel Hull ".........<br />Ayuh,......... That's Apples,+ Apples............<br />

Would you agree that you could characterize all bayliners in the same way, that they're all the same?

Well,........ Obviously,... You haven't been around iboats very long...........Because,....<br />I can answer That Question Very Honestly,.......<br />Ayuh,..... You're Darn Right........... <br />I try to Help alot of Bilgeliner owners,... All the Time..........Even the guys with OMCs.......<br /><br />But,..... When a Newbie wanders in,+ says he's found a Super Deal on a 1987 Bilgeliner,.......<br />You're Darn Right,.... I'm the 1st to SCREAM,..." run like the wind ".........<br />Because 99% on the time,.... The boat IS a POS................<br />And,... Yes,... I Truely Believe that More potential boaters are Turned-Off to boating, by buying the Wrong Boat...........<br /><br />Once the Poor Fool has bought it,....... I'm Still here to Help him out..........<br />

that motor is good/bad in general, and here's why

Well,..... You Don't Say what the Powerplant Is,.....<br />I'm Guessing it's a SBC, with 2300hrs......<br />OK,.... It's About BEAT,...... You'll need a New 1,... Soon......<br />

"inboards handle worse, but have the following attributes....",

It's a "Tunnel Drive",......Not really an Inboard.......<br />And,... That's covered Extremely Well in the link I posted.............<br />

I'm just not getting the same type of feed-back here, and I guess I'm frustrated that there's a rush to judgment that I've made up my mind already when I'm asking for help as to knowledge on the particulars of these types of boats/engines, etc., that will help me make up my mind.

Well,.........<br />There's really Not alot of Inboard talk here at iboats forums,...... Most of Us play with either Outboard power,.... Or I/Os,.......<br />That's Probably part of the reason you're not getting alot of feedback on the Unknown motor, transmission,+ underwater Gear........<br /><br /><br />And,.........<br />As far as this thread,.........<br />Whenever there's a "Don't Do It",........<br />You Reply with a "Ya, But",...............<br /><br />Like WW says,........<br />If You're into Junking Out Boats for their Hardware,...(Ayuh,.. That's what I Do),.......<br />Go Ahead,+ Buy It............<br />Ya,.. You Might get a year or 2 out of it,..??... Who Knows..........<br /><br />If you're looking for a #1, Your Primary Boat,... The 1 You Love & Cherish,...........<br /><br />RUN,....... RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN AWAY FROM THAT TUNNEL DRIVE..................... <br /><br />I Wouldn't give $1000.00 for the boat you've described,............<br />Unless it had a Great Trailer under it...........<br /><br />Your looking at a Rotten Cake, with Pretty Frosting on it.............

 

[goinhungry]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Bondo, that other post is a wooden tunnel hull. I suppose your boat wwould be the same if it would wood or fiberglass or aluminum, right? You're right, I don't have a lot of experience with boats, that's why I'm here - looking for insightful, constructive ideas. I never pretended to be knowledgable in this area - it's only my second season. The items that I listed were EXAMPLES of the types of helpful / constuctive critism that I think any novice who comes to a site like this looking for advice would appreciate hearing. If you simply said, "yes, based on my experience, Penn Yans are a bad boat because they're over priced, crafted poorly, underpowered, etc.", just as you did with the bayliner, then that would have been helpful and constructive, and I would have appreciated and taken that knowledge into account when making up my mind. <br /><br />The info on 2300 hours making the engine about beat is constructive, and I appreciate that. I see in other posts about Merc 3.0's here that others expect them to run for a very long time - I didn't know if that was the case with this engine, or if they had worse track records, etc. The 1979 305 OMC/chevy on my yarcraft still runs like a top.<br /><br />I guess the guys on this thread, which I just found, don't know what they're talking about either. http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=011284#000000 Boy, look at all the helpful ideas and constructive critism given there - even a few positive nods! Thanks for all the "help"

 

[goinhungry]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

.

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Goinhungry - I see that you are looking for more insight as to what is wrong with tunnel drives.<br /><br />From what I gather.<br />1. they are not very efficient on gas<br />2. they are rare, so parts may be hard to find<br />3. You said that you like it because it looks like an 80's boat eventhough it's a 70's boat. But, to be honest with you, for $5000, you could find an 80's boat that is a fixer upper and has a more common settup like a mercruiser.<br /><br />The deal sounds good, but you may want to keep looking.<br /><br />If you are just trying to get a couple of years out of it, maybe you should spend the $1900 on your current boat. Stringers boats are not well respected, but if you fixed yours, at least you'd know what you had and you'd save $2100.

 

[goinhungry]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Thanks a lot for the advice cptkid, I really appreciate it. As to fuel inefficiency, whould you say they're a lot less inefficient than a similarly weighted I/O? This would be an important area of consideration for me, with gas prices being what they are, so even if I didn't buy this boat, it'd be good info to know so I may stay away from other inboards too. <br /><br />I agree on the stringer comment too, my only concern is that I really don't know a ton about that boat either, as I've only run it for a year, so it could go either way too. The mechanic said the shift cable in that outdrive is the original one, and it's stiff, so it could go any day and I'm fearful of sinking in 1900 only for something else to go wrong - that's 1900 less to put toward another boat, but I guess that's the joy of boat ownership. So I may just junk the stringer and start looking for another, newer, fishing boat that's similar to the layout of the Penn Yan - as I like how it's size, set-up - whether it be OB or I/O, etc...

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

For $5000, I wonder if you could rebuild your stringer transom and repower (I don't know a whole lot about stringer boats). Don't know too too much about the gas mileage difference.<br /><br />But, just some basics, if you want to buy a boat that runs well, then make sure it runs well. Even if it’s 10 degrees outside, I’d run it. Maybe even do a compression check. If the motor has good compression and you don’t hear any knocks and pings when it runs.. Then, you can hope that the most that could be currently wrong with it would be bolt on stuff like alternator, starter, water pump, carb, ignition. <br /><br />I’d at least run it before you buy though.<br /><br />If you want more specific opinions about the tunnel boat's engine/tranny find out what type it is and post about that. There are a lot of knowledgable people on here.

 

[Weirdwalt]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Okay looking at all the responses here a common thread is that $5K is too much to pay. We are trying to help in that respect. I think we can all agree that you should not pay more than 1K for it. If the seller doesnt take it, walk away. I guarantee it will still be there in the spring.<br />Listen to us, there is a lot of experience here.

 

[goinhungry]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Thanks for your input Cpt & Walt. Walt, I understand that there's a lot of knowledge here, that's why I'm here - but I'm also trying to learn too, and that's why I was just hoping for some contructive info rather than just blanket statements. I apologize if I came off as upset earlier. <br /><br />The only reason I considered going with another older boat, and one that has high hours is that:<br /><br />1. My mechanic knows the owner (aeronotical engineer who's a maintenance fanatic) and the boat well.<br />2. I like the size/layout of this boat for my intended use.<br />3. it's got over $1500 worth of good gear, plus about $800-$1K in a brand new cover (which I don't think he would have had made if it had major mechanical problems, but then again, you never know! So, if I take the $4K price for the boat, subtract out the gear (1500) and the new cover (800) and the cost of fixing my old boat (1900), I'm looking at breaking even, or even possibly coming out ahead.<br />4. If I spend the 1900 on my other boat, and it dies, I've got that much less to work with to get another one.<br />5. My goal would only be to get 3-4 yrs out of it, if I was to buy cheaper/older. Then I wouldn't have to worry about trying to re-sell it when the kids get older. I can just junk it or sell it really cheap, hopefully having got my intended use out of it, just like I did with the yarcraft, and get a better boat for them to use too. I just can't afford to drop a ton of money now on something that's very new, and also don't want to buy something very new right now if the kids aren't going to be into fishing.<br /><br />I do agree that it will probably be there in the spring, so I should definely investigate elsewhere and check out other options. Like it was said above, the fact that the cabin isn't finished will probably turn most people off, even though it doesn't matter for our uses. <br /><br />I guess I'm leaning towards not going with it at this point, thanks to everyone's advice here, and I'll just keep up the search. Thanks for the help.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

I work on a lot of penn yanns here<br /> I dont know how or why someone says a tunnel drive is not an inoard, I guess next thell tell me a shanrok's keel drive is not an inboard either.<br /> most ran a 71 or 72 series borg warner vluct, a propshaft through a shaft log/stuffing box and placed the cutlass bearing in the V strut then attached a prop. rudder mounted just after the prop. kinda like every other inboard I ever worked on. you can buy a complete turn key 5.7 EFI with a 72 series clutch for less than 10K.<br /> they ride decent and will tolerate shallow water better than most. the prop is tucked into a tunnel, hence the name tunnel drive.<br /><br /> that being said, if you think you may buy it buy it considering the engine is junk.<br /> have the hull surveyed by a professional surveyor that can identify delaminations and stringer/bulkhead rot. the surveyor will also check out the hull systems and give a complete legal report.<br /> also beaware that penn yann been long out of business, some of the hull and rigging parts are no longer made and replacing certain rigging/hull fittings are difficult and expensive.<br /> ill take 4 wore out penn yanns to one OMC stringer.