Alpha Transom Assembly Replacement

[Red955i]

Replacing the complete assembly in a 1992 Alpha 1 Gen II boat. This boat does not have engine mounted reservoir for drive as some early boats did not. The new transom assembly has the oil fittings. Can then just be left as is, or must they be capped? If so with what? Thanks

 

[Bondo]

Can then just be left as is, or must they be capped? If so with what? Thanks

Ayuh,..... Welcome Aboard,..... If left alone, it'll leak,...

A 3/8" bolt stuffed into the hose, 'n hose clamped in works, seen it many times,....
A 3/8" dowel might work, but most wooden dowels in my world are Birch, which rots fairly quickly if wet with water,....

Why not find a bottle, 'n use the system,..??...

 

[Red955i]

Thanks Bondo, I've seen drives where they had the bottle and someone put a bolt in the hose (outside the boat) in the gimbal housing when it is no longer connected to bell housing to keep gravity from draining the bottle (why they keep the bottle full knowing it is not connected baffles me) But what I am curious about here is... Clearly this boat "never had the system". But what does that mean? It wasn't only the bottle and hose inside the boat that was missing as there was no connection on the old gimbal housing (inside boat). This new transom assembly which is pre-assembled...has it. Does that mean if I add a bottle and tube I have "the system" -or- is it possible that "if" these are the original drives, they are not built for the system either and there is no oil passage from where they contact the bellhousing down into the drive? Trying to see what Im getting into before I disassemble so I have what I need. Thanks

 

[achris]

Was the old gimbal from a 3 litre engine? They didn't come with the bottle. If all the fittings are there, just buy a bottle and the hose and have it. Better than not having it.

 

[Red955i]

No twin 5.7's. I guess what I have to do is check the drive when I pull it. The new transom assembly has the dribble valve to contact the drive and it has the connection inside the boat for the bottle. If the drive has the part to depress the check valve and let oil into the drive, I either need to get the bottle, or attach a bottle hose inside the boat and block it as Bondo said. But, it the drive has no fitting to depress the dribble valve adding a bottle will do nothing as it has no way into the drive. I would then have to add that part to the drive. Correct?

 

[Fun Times]

Honestly about the only real way to know is if you pull your stern drive off beforehand and have a look but to "possibly" help form an idea of what you have now without looking yet, 'Does your old gimbal housing have the hose on the outside of the boat that runs between the bell-housing (Drive unit) and the transom assembly on the starboard side? Much like these images on the bottom of page 2, 2000 Merc 5.L Gear Lube Hose

The thing you'd want to know between the old and new units is if you have the dribble valve on the bell housing in place or not.....You also need to check the upper drive shaft housing to see if you have either a hole, a sealed cover described as a sleeve to some drive units or does the upper drive unit have the spring kit with a check ball valve Merc part number 17997A1.

Depending on what you find your old transom and stern drive to have or not have, As you know the new transom will have the dribble valve in-place which may or may not open the oil passage-way on your old drive unit itself as it's all depending on what your stern-drive has for an oil passageway right now......The problem is it's a 50/50 gamble to be able to tell you for sure what you may or may not have without looking/removing the drive....Due to in the early years of 1991-95, the oil bottle was an option which was mostly found on the 3.0's as an option but in the very early years, some of the stern drive models for other engine sizes didn't come with the ball valve in the upper unit as the drive was either not drilled out or covered with a seal.

Then things slowly went to just not installing the dribble valve in the bell-housing while the drive housing was opened up for a ball valve kit to be install if desired if it wasn't there already....Some where sealed while others had a valve.
Should the stern drive be an SEI aftermarket drive then they also claimed at least back in 2008 that they don't ship their alpha drives with a check ball valve installed as theirs is sealed and you would have to order and install kit number 17997A1 to use the oil bottle after prying out the seal/sleeve.

So depending on what you have / want to do with yours would be either remove the dribble valve from the new transom assembly so nothing will be pushing on the check ball in the upper drive housing which is described how to remove the dribble valve in the following link for you, http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engin...-valve-removal

Or connect the hose up on the inside to the new transom unit (which I don't believe will come with the new hose or connection fitting) and block the hose with a bolt as described or buy a new hose and bottle kit for easier oil top-offs. < All the new parts to make it work can be found here, http://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/s...30862/2686/270

Item # 33 is removable if desired, http://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/s.../30858/1017/50
http://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/s...30862/2686/270

I cant' link it here on iboats as the link will be dead but you (or others) may be interested in reading/searching online by coping and pasting this exact title heading in blue " Remote Oil reservoir question - Sterndrive " which talks more about the upper SEI drive units being sealed off from new.

Please let us know what you find and decided to do....Good luck.

 

[Red955i]

Thanks for that very detailed reply. I appreciate the time it took! The old housing has no dribble valve. Can see that from inside. With no dribble valve there is certainly no hose. New transom assembly as you mentioned does have one. Will have to check drive. If it has check valve as you mentioned I will buy the reservoir assuming the drive has the check valve to open the dribble valve, or a place for it. That leaves, I believe, one scenario....if the drive has no check valve installed, or no place to install it, then there is nothing to push dribble valve (I assume) and therefore I can just leave the dribble valve in place and not worry about leaks as there is nothing to press it. Correct? Thanks again

 

[Fun Times]

If the drive has no check valve installed, or no place to install it, then there is nothing to push dribble valve (I assume) and therefore I can just leave the dribble valve in place and not worry about leaks as there is nothing to press it. Correct?

If there is no hole on the drive unit then personally I would remove the dribble valve out of the bell housing as there wouldn't be any room for the valve to be recessed into the drive housing upon installation.....If the hole is there with just a seal but also offers a setback insert within the drive housing then you could leave the dribble valve in if desired.....Some used to add a bit of black rtv silicone into the bell-housing hole that didn't have the dribble valve in place for a better seal or just turn the gasket around as been suggested before here on iboats but there should also be a plug that takes the place of the hose barb fitting on the outside/backside area of your old bell-housing so you could/should be able to remove your old plug from your old housing and install it in your new housing too if desired. Item number 4 should be the plug and thread size if interested in knowing, http://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassembly/30858/1017/50

 

[Red955i]

Thanks...there is no plug on old transom a solid piece where dribble would be. I will pick your brain(s) one more time if I may. The new transom assembly comes with new trim cylinders and new hoses. These hoses have quick connects on them. The black hose has the female quick connect unit, the grey has a male. Since this boat is a 1992, the trim pump, which works great, has no quick connects on them. My first thought was to just remove the quick connects, The female fitting came off easily using flare nut wrenches but the male on the grey hose must have been put on by a gorilla. Cant get it to budge and don't want to destroy hose
I then decided to try to acquire the proper fittings to install quick connects in the old pump. So it needs inverted flare fittings on the pump side...I don't know size thread...and then quick connects on other side. Cannot see that Merc makes this part. They have fitting to connect old inverted flare hoses to new pump, but not vice-versa, that I can see. Any clues?

 

[Fun Times]

These two style fittings should allow for your old inside trim hoses (Black and Gray) to be connected to a new late model style trim pump that now comes with the new quick connect fittings, http://www.michiganmotorz.com/mercru...r-p-11196.html ....Which will also be item numbers 2 & 4 in the following parts guide, http://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/s...0969/11210/140

Merc part number 22-865412001 and 22-865413002 should be what you need to connect to your new style hoses once you are able to remove the old fittings out of the old pump and install these. See item numbers 5 & 7, http://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/s...0969/11210/170

22-865412001 looks like this, https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...X22-865412001.TRS0&_nkw=22-865412001&_sacat=0

22-865413002 looks like this, https://www.ebay.com/itm/QUICKSILVE...ash=item4d52e353f2:g:rxkAAOSwUuFWzfXb&vxp=mtr

Once you can install the new fittings then it should look like this, http://www.2040-parts.com/_content/i...503112/001.jpg
Maybe a bit of careful light heat will help remove the old fitting ?.

And this may help with hose color connection points if its not in a installation guide you may or may not receive with the new transom, http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engin...nd-orientation

 

[Red955i]

Ok some more great info, but unfortunately, didn't work for me. You first paragraph is correct from what I know but doesn't apply as I have new hoses and old pump
Paragraph 2 does relate to me. I picked up both fittings, not cheap here in NY ($87 for both which sadly from Merc say right on the package no return if opened) and they do not fit (too large) Looked to see if pump had removable reducer inserts once old hoses are removed and they do not. The 3002 part is also really not an inverted flare fitting as is also has a built in screen at end. I had removed the female from the new black hose and the remaining hose fitting screwed directly into pump. The male would not budge. So I was left with three options Clearly the threading in the back of the new quick connect I removed from the black hose was the same threading as pump so I could ....1) Somehow remove the male quick connect 2) find a quick connect with a matching male to screw into pump 3) find a union that would screw into pump and into the female quick connect I removed from black hose. Since the male would still not budge I focused on #2&#3 with no luck. Ace Hardware, HD, Lowes, PepBoys, AutoZOne, 4 or 5 plumbing stores, 4 marine mercruiser places....no luck. Then I tried an old old auto parts store. I explained what it was and off he went looking. Came back a few minutes later and said he didn't have it. I wasn't surprised and was ready to leave when he said....."If you have 15 minutes though....I'll make you the union... I was shocked. He said since it's for a boat I'll do brass. 10 min and $10 later he had made a brass inverted flare union that was a perfect fit. I didn't even know guys like this existed anymore. What a great find !! Well guys I appreciate all your help!! Many thanks

 

[Fun Times]

Well darn that you may be stuck with those fittings but happy to hear you made something work....Sounds like you got pretty lucky running into that guy.

Did you happen to talk to the place you bought them through while buying them to see if they'd be willing to work with you on taking them back for maybe a restocking fee of some sort...May be worth a try while possibly checking to see if they happen to have the first design part number in stock too to see if maybe the thread sizes are a bit different that maybe they'd go into the pump adaptor you have just to see if maybe ?.

^ 'The first quick connect part number fittings back in 2004 that went into the pump adaptor were 22-865412 and 22-865413 before superseding into the part numbers I listed/you bought.

Though I'm not positive of this following info as it's been awhile since reading the service advising bulletin from Merc and my details of any recollection of this are very faint but I'll go head and put it out there for you and others that may run into this same situation....After much thought I "think" somewhere along the changes made by Merc both in 2004 and I want to say 2006, (and your post above helps with these thoughts) I believe they ended up changing the thread sizes inside the pump adaptor possibly due to a parts manufacturer change and in order to make things work with the new style quick connect fittings they were recommending installing a new style pump "Adaptor"... Again I think. One (or any) of those 4 Merc dealers should be able to look that bulletin up to confirm the details though.

If my memory is the case then your $10.00 was a deal since the adaptors are over $300.00 new. See item numbers 1 which list both old and new part numbers of the adaptors, http://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/s...30858/1017/130

Though it's listed for outboards and goes into Merc # 22-808727 CONNECTOR, (.50-20 UNF To .4375-24 Inverted Flare) that also fits a Merc stern drive style pump, Merc fitting part number 22-818200 kind of looks like it may work too of what the guy was able to make up for you?


Just for references purposes here's all of the "listed" connector thread sizes of years past,
22-808727 CONNECTOR, (.50-20 UNF To .4375-24 Inverted Flare)
22-805118 FITTING, (.4375 UNS x .4375 Inverted Flare)
22-865590 CONNECTOR, (.50 UNF To .25 Inverted Flare)

The screen shot below is from 2004 and is the only references that I can find about the changes made though I know there's more info out there from Merc somewhere,

 

[Fun Times]

...

 

[Red955i]

Wow, you're a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate all the time you invested. In your last picture labeled New Design thats how the transom shipped with the two hoses clicked together. What I ended up doing was removing the female quick connect and the hose fitting that screwed into it was the same thread as the original pump. So I just installed that line the old fashioned way with no quick connect. Where this pump is, in this boat, there is nothing quick regardless of what connection type with the engine installed anyway. My plan was to repeat that with the male hose but that failed.. So since the quick connect I removed with the hose I simply needed a inverted flare union...to use it...but no such luck finding one till this guy made me one. I would be guessing, since when you google those part #'s they don't show a picture and I don't understand all the UNF etc. but I think the parts "might be" the first two in the old #'s (ending in 727) as I believe the threads in the pump as 7/16-24 inverted flare which is .4375. Thanks for all your help. I know who to come looking for with questions!! Regards Bob

 

[Red955i]

Just thought of one more question...Are the bolts, washers etc required for the rear mounts with the new Alpha 1 Gen II transom assemblies, Different than the old ones? Just from eyeballing it, it looks that way.. Thanks

 

[Bondo]

.Are the bolts, washers etc required for the rear mounts with the new Alpha 1 Gen II transom assemblies, Different than the old ones?

Ayuh,.... Rear mounts,... for What,..??

 

[Fun Times]

Just thought of one more question...Are the bolts, washers etc required for the rear mounts with the new Alpha 1 Gen II transom assemblies, Different than the old ones? Just from eyeballing it, it looks that way.. Thanks

Ah that's a good important question on the rear engine mount system/differences as there was a change starting in mid 2003.

If you received new rear engine mount hardware (bolts, washers, fiber-washers, and most important two small washers possibly described as a spacer (washer) kit part number 12-892619A01) (or washer # 12-54012 (.530 x .870 x .105) Stainless Steel) with your new transom assembly then yes you most likely received the newest design mounting hardware minus the new style rear engine mount rubber bushing component that would automatically come already mounted to either a whole new engine or engine flywheel housing from Merc should you (or someone) buy one from the factory.

Being you have an older engine and/or flywheel housing that most likely still uses/has the old style engine mounts but now a new transom assembly with new "hardware"; 'You would have to still use your old rear engine mount "hardware" or at least one part of it anyways which would be the double wound lock washers that fits atop the fiber washers..... 'Or In order to use all of the new "hardware" that may or may not have included two of the spacer "washer" kit mentioned above; 'You would have to order and install the new designed rear engine mounts which would be installed into your old flywheel housing but in doing so you may run a risk of having to figure out how to lower the front of the engine a bit more to help accommodate the new style rear engine mounts and washers.

^ With that mentioned, should you ever need new rear motor mounts due to a failure and buy them from the factory, you would most likely end up with the new design mounts and need the spacer "washers" plus lower the front of the engine...... < To help stay away from that issue you may consider just buying aftermarket rear engine mounts as the old design are still available via aftermarket only.

The following service bulletin should help explain most of the differences between the new and old hardware, MCM Rear Engine Mount Design Change - Marine ?

Item number 8 should be the new type washer in question, http://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassembly/30969/11210/50

Here's the lock washer from your old engine item # 8 part # 13-33734 LOCKWASHER, (.500), http://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassembly/30862/2686/60

The new style rear engine mounts are Merc part number 865330A02, https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...C0.H0.X865330A02.TRS0&_nkw=865330A02&_sacat=0

99297A1 is the old rear engine mount part number to cross reference from if ever needed.