Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

[kimscrim]

Hi guys. Have a question and a bad situation. Here goes. Almost a month ago we bought a 86 four winns freedom 16' with a 3.0 mercruiser inboard engine on it. The guy said it ran great, and it was stored and winterized in a building and just had to sell it cuz he needed the money. Barely made it home with the trailer. Had to immediately replace both tires and bearings. Also, had the prop redone. Had to get it legalized in our name. Bought numerous things for this boat. Got all excited about finally being able to take it out. Friday night got the kids and everything around to get up early Saturday morning and finally take the boat out. Got it in the water and it wouldnt stay started. We launched at a marine shop so they were able to help us. They thought it was the water filter pump thing. Got out of the boat and left it there overnight. Got a call from them saying they replaced that (the old one was shot) but also said there was a crack in the manifold from not winterizing it!!!! omg, my husband and i are sooo mad. We cant afford a new engine in this boat!!! Called the guy we bought it from and he said as far as hes concerned we drove it off his lot its our problem now!!! Is there anything we can do?? Do we even stand a chance in small claims court?? Please help, if anyone knows. Thanks in advance!

Also, we did hear the engine run. He started on land, with the phones. and it was running fine.

 

[Lrider]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

I don't think the manifold is the whole engine - did the mechanic tell you if anything else is wrong? I am thinking 3k is not a bad price for the boat if it needs repairs

you didn't say what model it is so it is hard to guess if it is worth it

you have any pictures?

 

[ajgraz]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

Hate to be a downer, but let me catalog your errors:

The guy said it ran great, and it was stored and winterized...Barely made it home with the trailer. Had to immediately replace both tires and bearings. Also, had the prop redone.

Believe nothing, should have done a sea trial and road test on the trailer.

Got all excited about finally being able to take it out. Friday night got the kids and everything around to get up early Saturday morning and finally take the boat out. Got it in the water and it wouldnt stay started.

Never put the family on the boat for the maiden voyage; get everything working and sea-tested first.

...but also said there was a crack in the manifold from not winterizing it!!!!

Again, believe nothing, should have done a sea trial.

Called the guy we bought it from and he said as far as hes concerned we drove it off his lot its our problem now!!! Is there anything we can do?? Do we even stand a chance in small claims court??

Unless you got a written warranty (which seems unlikely), it is your problem and you stand no chance in court, sorry.

 

[NelsonQ]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

First kim, welcome to iboats, even under the circumstances.

I'm not sure what recourse you'd have. First, I'm in Canada and I'm sure the rules/laws are different but up here, if he wrote on the bill of sale 'As Is' you have no recourse.

Even if he didn't, and a month has passed, if your pursue small claims, it may be a long drawn out situation. Are you going to pursue it yourself or get legal representation ($$$$)

Did you have the boat inspected/surveyed by a marine surveyor? Did you water test this boat or see it running even on a hose?

I can only imagine how you're feeling. You may have some legal recourse, but I'm sure you'll find varying advice here. Post your information on State, etc as someone may have more details on your location.

You will find the right information if you and/or your husband want to tackle the job of repair yourselves in order to save some $$$.

Sorry to hear of your crappy situation.

 

[abarron]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

Im not a inboard man don't know nothing about them,But if nothing else froze and busted,could the crack be welded,at a welding shop?

 

[seabob4]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

Well, it may not be so bad. You have a crack in the exhaust manifold, this comes from water sitting in the manifold due to either not being winterized, or improper winterization. There also may be an issue with the exhaust elbow, as it also can trap water as well. You're looking at about $400 worth of parts here, maybe $250 if just the manifold. If the hubby is mechanically inclined, it's an easy swap. With an Inline 4 like the 3.0 is, there's good access.

I just did a quick search. Check out eBay or some other surplus sites, you'll find it cheaper...

But the others were right about doing a sea trial, maybe even a survey (they cost around $250 for a boat like yours). But is is money worth spending. But since you guys have bitten the bullet, and have no recourse, it's time to get in there and do the repairs...

 

[kimscrim]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

Hi again guys. I live in Michigan. I know now, that we should have taken it out on the lake for a test drive. I guess I am just to trusting of a person and I myself would never do this to anyone. Believe me this is a HUGE learning lesson for both of us. This is the first boat we have bought in 10 years. Our first 2 boats we did have any trouble at all, and yes, I did edit that the engine was heard with phones on it. The marina said the crack is on the external manifold and they are tearing it apart to see if the block is cracked also. UGH!!!!!! Also, there was no As Is on the bill of sale.

 

[cr2k]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

Sorry to hear of your dilemma.

I am assuming it was a Mercruiser Stern Drive (or IO) and not an Outboard as you wrote.

You may be able to find a used manifold for it that will cut the cost by quite a bit. Did you check the oil? You need to check the oil before and after running and note 2 things, the level-is it the same? and is it milky? If No to #1 or Yes to #2 you will need to dig deeper to find out why.

I would pursue small claims court and maybe even have a lawyer (maybe you have some legal counsel available at low cost) call him with stating the intent to pursue the cost via court. Maybe he will split the costs with you. If not I would take out and ad or use Craig's list to inform people what this person does.

Unless you have good knowledge of marine systems and know what to look for, or take to a shop for an evaluation, buying a boat untested is always a pig in a poke.

Once you get the engine problems fixed you will need to do a complete lube service and replace the water pump impeller at a minimum.

 

[Lrider]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

I apid 4k for my boat and fully expected to have to pay about 2k more in all of the miscellaneous stuff I want to do and what will be needed. Then OMG what if the engine breaks though came to mind - I relooked at the boat and everything that I like about it and what other options I might have had and still think that it is worth keeping even if it is going to cost me another 6k or so

The reasoning is that the boat itself is in excellent shape and I could have bought a used one for 10 to 12k and I may have been in the same boat (so to speak) a 12k boat that needs a 8k motor

In the long run, even with a new motor I will know what I have and enjoy it all the more for the Bargain price

Take hear you will have a boat you can trust when you are done

 

[kimscrim]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

Yeah, the marina did just put in a new water pump, thats how they discovered the bigger problem. We had the marina check the oil yesterday and he said it was a little milky.

 

[mbaccp]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

You do stand a great chance in small claims court. However, you must file the claim in the county in which you purchased the boat. Have the mechanic who worked on the boat sign a affidavit that states that the block was cracked due to lack of winterization. In small claims court, hearsay is admissible, so all you have to do is convince the judge that the seller knew of the damage to the engine prior to the sale and that he misrepresented the condition of the boat to you. Send a certified, return receipt letter to the seller politely asking for your money back due to the condition of the boat. Keep copies of all correspondence and all replies from the seller to present to the court. Good luck. Don't let the seller off the hook.

I had a similar experience and I won.

 

[kimscrim]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

OK, the boat is in good shape, not excellent. The reason we only paid 3k for a boat is because thats all we could afford. Denitely not to add 2k on top of that. If that was the case we would have found a nice boat for 5k. also a new engine for this boat is just not worth it. the boat is an 86 and to add a new motor is just unreal for what that boat is worth.

 

[elkhunter338]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

I had something very similar with a 1986 starcraft. My engine the manifold was just broke, rust had plugged the drain hole and last owner did not use a piece of wire to make sure there was no clog. New manifold is $300 ish. Engine might be just fine because the block might have drained.
You bought an old boat and money pit. My $4500 investment ended up costed me another 5-6k ish over the last 5 years and I have done all the work my self. New floor, new transmon, new cabin wall, new wheel bearings, new outdrive, new engine (old one broke timing gear), new water pump, cracked manifold and yes the owner said he winterized it. and many othe little things.
I bought a 1986 boat with a 1971 engine/outdrive. Everything on the surface looked ok until I got it home and started changing the fuel lines and cleaning the fuel tanks, then I started to find all kinds of things.

You are stuck with what you bought, you bought used and so did I some times you win and sometimes you get stuck with something that needs some TLC. You will still probably come out ok.

 

[Overkill82k5]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

A little milky could be from sitting for a long period of time and getting some condensation in it. A little milky could actually be a good sign that your engine internals aren't all buggered up. I dont think the problem is quite as catastrophic as it may have initially seemed to you (only my opinion from your description). Hopefully the manifold will be the only thing wrong and you can be out and about enjoying the local waters soon. Good luck!!

 

[zibzer]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

Boats are expensive and be prepared for expenses when you get a 24 year old boat! anything could go on any given day, its just the way it is, at least with my experience with older stuff. I buy old stuff all the time, 1974 dirt bike, 1979 100hp evinrude outboard, 1987 boat, 1983 Street bike. they all run great 95% of the time, but be prepared to spend money that 5% time when they don't work. I do all the work myself so i save lots and i actually enjoy fixing the stuff almost as much as using them. Anyways I'm going to go clean the points on my dirt bike.. catch ya later, and... Welcome to the world of boats!

 

[kimscrim]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

I sure hope your right Overkill. To have it just be the manifold would be wonderful news. I know about buying used toys and having to put money into them. Just bought (a few months ago) a blazer from a dealership and had to turn around and put 2k into it! We really didnt think we had a leg to stand on when it came down to the legal part, also, if we can get this fixed we are going to sell it and we will be buying an outboard, far less costly!!


Also, the marina said the engine ran good (if that means anything??)

 

[kimscrim]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

also, we bought this boat off of craigslist. I wonder if theres a way that his ad could be pulled up if we did end up going to court?

 

[capt sam]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

buying a 20 year old boat on a shoestring budget is usually not a good idea as you found out. I would seriously consider doing it yourself if possible, it is not that hard and these guys will walk you thru it.

 

[KermieB]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

Kim... My wife has to go to the Magistrate's court about every other month as part of her job. I asked her about your deal, and she said that she has to sit through cases like this often. She said it was usually a used car. Go immediately and make a claim against him to your local magistrate. When you make a claim, they only have 30 days to respond, so you may could get this cleared up in time to find another deal. At worst, you can go talk to your magistrate and be told what your options are.... Good luck!

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Am I out $3000 plus or is there something we can do?

I wouldn't waste my time in small claims over a boat you bought on craiglist for 3K. It's a he said/she said type situation and the truth is that half the people who own boats don't have a clue if they were winterized correctly or if they are even operating correctly.

If the mechanic is saying that it is just the exhaust manifold - and they are sure then I would count myself lucky, find the best deal you can on a manifold and then have either a mechanic or a mechanically inclined friend help you install it.

Sad truth is that boats cost money, forever. Old boats cost a lot of money at random intervals, especially if you don't have the skills to fix them yourself.

The brand new bayliner I bought in 2005 has been a lot cheaper on a yearly basis than the 20 year old bayliner it replaced