Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

[62_Kiwi]

Today is the first day of the America's Cup races and little old Auckland is buzzing. We hear that Cindy Crawford will be starting the first race - Tom Cruize, Prince Albert of Monaco, Larry Ellison, Paul Allen.... and a whole lot more celebrities and billionaires - more than you can shake a stick at ... are all here. The Auckland Viaduct is packed - I was there myself yesterday afternoon. Yep, it's all true. <br /><br />The battle of course, is between our local boys "Team New Zealand" who as usual are running their defence on a (relative) shoestring budget....and the challangers "Alingi" - skippered by Kiwi hero (and former Team NZ Skipper) Russell Coutts. Russell also has former Team NZ Tactician, Brad Butterworth with him too.<br /><br />Rumour has it that if Russell and Brad win the cup off Team NZ, then they have a helicopter all set up to whisk them off the water and back to an aeroplane that will have them out of the country in a shot. I guess they're worried about those local NZ rednecks who think they're traitors.... But me, I wouldn't hold it against them - I'm glad to see any of my countrymen do well in international competition.......But without a doubt, I'm backing Team New Zealand to hold on to the cup once again! Yeehar!!

 

[sloopy]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

Well the first race was the most interesting thing I have ever seen:<br /><br />first: they are getting tons of water in the boat<br />2nd: their boom brakes, and I am glad it did! they should of stuck with the origonal idea that EVREY other boat used... A normal 20 thousand $$$ Carbon fibre boom without that ugly (and braking) pipe looking thing sticking out of it.<br />3rd: a Jib rips out of the forstays groove<br />4th. the next jib flys out and they forfit.<br /><br />I think the reason all those bad and funny things happened to TNZ was because they were afraid of Alinghi, and rushed and stuff broke (when I rush stuff brakes) and they tried things that I have never seen befor!! lets hope that not all the races are like that...<br /><br />I will add more to this later

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

Yes Sloop, I hope all the races aren't like that too. It was a terrible day for Team NZ.<br /><br />On TV they're saying that all the water they took in would have increased the weight of the hull dramatically and put considerable extra stress on the rigging. <br /><br />I hope they can get this sorted out for tomorrow's race - people are looking a little "concerned" around here...<br /><br />The encouraging thing about today for Team NZ was how they gained an early lead.....before everything started going wrong....

 

[JB]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

I think Alinghi has an advantage of the races in the LV Cup to get details sorted out.<br /><br />In that way, even Team NZ are like newbies taking on the seasoned veteran.<br /><br />I do hope accidents and such don't decide the Cup. An incident-free race is so much more satisfying to watch.<br /><br />Better luck to Team NZ in future races.

 

[sailor_turned_stinkpotter]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

Well 62Kiwi, even if team new zealand loses the cup, you can take solace in the fact that a Kiwi has been assured to win the cup since the finals of the LV cup when Kiwi Chris ****son battled fellow Kiwi Russel Coutts for the honors of battling Kiwi Dean Barker in the Americas Cup finals.<br />Being an American here down under of course I was sad when the last american team was eliminated, but I think if ol larry ellison is smart he will try and hire some Kiwis for HIS team next time.

 

[Ross J]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

No Dave, Russell isn't considered a Kiwi anymore. This race is between Team New Zealand and Alinghi.<br />It'll be decided on the water and the better boat will win. Even if that is Alinghi.<br />Our media coverage has already signalled very strongly that they take the stance that a kiwi will win, but I think they'll find themselves very much out in the cold if they don't keep true to Team NZ. After all they've carried all the advertising thus far.<br />Ross

 

[plywoody]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

The One World team has suggested they will not complete in the next America's cup if it is held in NZ due to the percieved dangers and the threats received. <br /><br />At any rate, I watched yesterday's race with interest. To me it was especially informative to have the long drag race they had on the first upwind leg, before the wheels came off on Team NZ. I did not get the idea that Team NZ was faster at all- actually their speed was virtually identical. And with the strengh of the wind, both boats were pretty much at terminal velocity, which indicates that what advantage gained by the "hula" is minimal at best. If there is no fundamental speed difference in the boats, and it becomes a race of sailing skill, it is going to be hard to beat Butterworth and Coutts.<br /><br />The other interesting thing was that during the LV Cup, they would not start a race if the wind was over 19 kts, I believe. Yesterday, the wind at start was over 20 kts. You would certainly think that the New Zealanders would have been better prepared for the heavier winds than Alinghi, but it certainly did not seem to be the case.<br /><br />And from a couch potato who loves watching the race on TV, it was great to hear Gary Jobson's commentary as opposed to Dawn Riley. I don't doubt that Riley understands what she is talking about, but Jobson is so much better at communicating it.

 

[flashback]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

What was the wind? about 25-30 knots? In their quest for lightness, the boats are just not built to handle that kind of weather. that huge rig, narrow chain plate spacing, must create tremendous pressures. how did the boom break anyhow? I didn't see any of the race except for the very last when the jib popped out of the luff track. I guess the boats can take that kind of wind but there sure aint any room for error. also i heard something about an adjustable rudder or something? anyone else hear anything like that?

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

Here's an interesting situation; As I write this - it's about 3 and a half hours before start time on Sunday, here in Auckland. There is virtually no wind (so far). This could be a very different race under very different conditions to yesterday (hopefully).

 

[sloopy]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

I don't understand the hula thing. <br /><br />I also heard that the reason the jib flew out was because of a tack ring? But should'nt those things hold double the load that will be applied? If they are trying to save ounces, by the means of a smaller shackle? Why did the skipper have a Cell phone on board? <br /><br />I think all teams should have have a limit on what they can spend on the BOAT and I think they should have less sails! like 10 sails max and those have to LAST the whole cup! <br /><br />And last but not least! TNZ boom can be carried by only one person! YIKES! that is light!! I can barly lift my boom! and theirs has to hold over 100 times more then my boat does!!! <br /><br />BRB just had a power surge

 

[flashback]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

yep, as im typing this it looks like there going to start the race in about 15 mins. winds approx 10 knots so tearing up the boats shouldn't be a problem. this one should boil down to skill.....

 

[flashback]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

well the first leg was a good race. i think alingi is showing better tactics, but otherwise they are running about the same. what was NZ worried about the lighter air for? Yea Sloopy, I don't know what that hula is, maybe Plywoody can fill us in. by the the way, Dave down under, how did you end up down there. Ive always thought it would be a great place to live.......

 

[Ross J]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

Well, Alinghi won and well done too!<br />I do hope for a better performance from Team New Zealand on Tuesday (our time). I feel they can do it yet.........<br />Ross

 

[Ross J]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

Here you go Flashback<br /> <br />Clay Oliver <br /><br />Mastering the hula harder than it looks <br /><br />12.02.2003<br />By HELEN TUNNAH <br />Ask designer Clay Oliver how Team New Zealand's new hula works, and he starts with a basic outline. <br /><br />"It essentially changes the wave profile by changing the volume distribution in conjunction with the very after part of the boat." <br /><br />Frankly, his number eight wire and duct tape explanation is simpler. <br /><br />Oliver, Team New Zealand's principal designer, was the man who first drew the new hula (hull appendage) when the America's Cup holders first sat down almost three years ago to think about their new boats. <br /><br />A 50-year-old naval architect originally from Rhode Island, Oliver said he decided to draw the longer boat that he wanted, and then with the full design team worked out how it could be achieved within the rulebook. <br /><br />"It says that 20 per cent of the volume of the boat can be appendages and that's where the idea came from. <br /><br />"With an appendage, you can integrate the shape you want and lower the transom." <br /><br />The hula, just one new feature on a boat which includes a long, thin bulb, lighter boom and a return to a four-spreader rig, aims to increase its waterline length and thus its speed. <br /><br />Team New Zealand will for the first time in the America's Cup use a hula in Saturday's first race against Team Alinghi, and it will soon become clear if the package of innovations has lifted the sport's design to new levels. <br /><br />A non-movable appendage, the hula stretches along the stern of the boat for about 7m, sitting snugly but only touching the hull along a narrow channel. The rules state it can be attached only within 250mm either side of the centreline of the hull. <br /><br />Experts are split over whether the hula will work, if it provides an upwind or downwind advantage, and even whether it is legal. It has been described as the biggest innovation in the event since the Australians launched a winged keel 20 years ago, but others reject it as rule-bending. <br /><br />Oliver said yesterday that the concept was reasonably straightforward. <br /><br />"The hula's job is actually to try to reduce the wave resistance ... If the boat's ghosting along at three knots of boatspeed, there's no waves so the hula's not doing anything. If you're doing 14 knots, it's doing quite a lot." <br /><br />For two years the New Zealanders tested the device, working to come up with a design which could fit the rigid hull appendage very closely to the hull, to limit the drag caused by water flowing through the tiny gap. <br /><br />Consideration also had to be given to the hula's weight, and whether the friction caused by the water flow outweighed any advantages from the improved waterline length. <br /><br />Designers studied gap measurements in the tank-testing programme, in which large-scale models are tested in a special British facility, before full-size models were considered. <br /><br />Prototypes were attached to the team's boats from the winning 2000 campaign, but both NZL81 and NZL82 were designed and built with hulas. <br /><br />To the naked eye, the visible gap between the hula and the hull appears to be just millimetres. But it is apparently not the same all the way along its length, and it is not known how big the internal gap is. <br /><br />"We know what that gap is," Oliver says. "Because the boat changes shape in different conditions you have to set different gaps depending on where you're at along the boat. <br /><br />"Water does flow through there, and it flows through there at different speeds depending where it is in there." <br /><br />Oliver reveals even less when asked how the hula actually is attached, and whether it is attached for its full length or just at a single or selected points. <br /><br />"It's basically Kiwi ingenuity and it's something like baling wire, duct tape and that kind of thing. <br /><br />"That's how the country was made and that's how the hula's attached." <br /><br />Convincing regatta officials the hula meets the rules has taken several months, but both boats have been declared valid. <br /><br />Ross

 

[sailor_turned_stinkpotter]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

I wouldnt have believed todays race if I hadnt seen it with my own two eyes. I only have one word to describe Russel Coutts and Alinghis performance today:<br /><br />UNFREAKINGBELIEVABLE!!!!!<br /><br />

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

It was a fine boatrace with plenty of excitement towards the end as Alinghi won by just a 7 second margin - after trailing Team NZ throughout much of the race.<br /><br />Ross, I agree - Team NZ can still do it....

 

[flashback]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

well Ross , thats just clear as mud. really, what i gather is it is a fin of sorts running down the centerline of the boat between the keel and rudder. and it is movable and creates different shapes to deal with different wave pressures.. I think i have it..... is there anywhere i can see a picture? oh by the way, I read in the newspaper this morning that alingi won another race. what happened? I went to bed about 11:30 last nite and NZ was ahead by about 25-30 seconds.....

 

[JB]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

Now THAT was a thrilling and proper race. Decided by the narrowest of margins and won by the skill of a crew at getting the most from their vessel.<br /><br />I can't wait for race 3!!

 

[plywoody]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

Re the Hula. I cannot possibly comprehend that explaination of the Hula, but in simpler terms, there is a concept called a "hull speed" which is a maximum speed a specific hull can achieve without breaking out on a plane. It is a simple mathematical calculation, with part of the equation being the length of the waterline of the hull. The "hula" is designed (legally???) to extend the waterline of the boat, thereby increasing its theoretical maximum achievable speed.<br />In theory, it should only help in wind conditions that allow the boat to achieve terminal velocity (something above 15 kts or so, I'm guessing) and winds below that one would think that it would be somewhat of a drag (although I am not a designer)<br />The two races so far, IMO have shown the boats to be very equal in speed, both in light winds and calm seas, and strong winds and heavy seas.<br />This to me would indicate that the Hula has been pretty much much ado about nothing<br /><br />Race two, however, was spectacular. Alinghi was able to gain just the slightest advantage on the first upwind leg, and TeamNZ just powered by them on the second downwind leg. Whether they got favorable shifts of wind, or some puffs that Alinghi didn't get, or what the reason was, it was an impressive display.<br />Then Alinghi was able to cut just a few seconds off the lead per leg, but still rounded the 5th mark about 4 boatlengths ahead. And then the master went to work giving the student a lesson.<br /><br />Coutts forced Barker into some minor, but crucial, mistakes, was able to get in his windshadow, and power by him, finally forcing Team NZ out to the lay line maintaining a slight advantage, but forcing NZ into a position that they could not overcome. <br />Even Coutts almost made a slight mistake in the final jibe, and started to sail a higher course than necessary, but Butterworth was right there to remind him that he didn't need to. He had the advantage to the finish, and if he sailed a proper course, Team NZ could not overtake. And they didn't.<br /><br />Poor old Barker, skipper of NZ, was visibly shaken and upset at the end of the race, and it was clear that Coutts got to his psyche.<br /><br />He's got to think that they cannot win and make any mistakes at all, and the surest way to guarantee mistakes is to realize you cannot make any! It will be interesting to see if Barker can shake this one off, and come back in the next race. He's got an off day to think about it.<br /><br />But the boats are pretty much equal, and if the difference is sailing skill, I don't know if anyone in the world can beat Coutts and Butterworth.<br /><br />Amazing!

 

[sloopy]

Re: Americas Cup - Battle of the Kiwis

I think new zealand is going to blow it! the black boat is faster down wind (they say) but Alinghi's after quard is the best and as we saw in race 2, you can't stop them, when alinghi has the lead they hold it, if you get the lead theu will keep[ attacking and never leave your tail! I would like to see a higher wind race on tuesday (monday for us ) That way we will know who is better in higher winds, I still think Alinghi will win the cup! Almost every one on TNZ was taught by the crew of Alinghi when they were still Kiwis! <br /><br />If Alinghi wins (and I think they will with a 5-1 or 5-2) lets hope no one shoots the crew like Ross said! <br /><br />THEN!! Larry Ellison can buy Russel for 10 million and take the cup back to America in 2006-2007!!