Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

[NMShooter]

My prior experience with trolling consists of dragging a panther martin behind a canoe

I bought a 16' fish and ski O/B for my daughter and me to fish out of. We want to troll for stripers in Elephant Butte lake, and Salmon in Eagle's Nest lake (both in New Mexico). Probably try trolling for walleye in Abiquiu lake too.

I'm looking around for a couple of "starter" downriggers. Holy cow these things are expensive.

Any good reference books for complete beginners? Got any tips to share? I know nothing about the hardware or technique... we're mostly cold water fly fishing types.

Any and all comments appreciated!

Thanks,

Frank

Here's a fun little creek to fish. There's 1000s of brook trout in there... a whopper is 10". We're hoping for somewhat bigger fish than this yeilds!

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

Quite the stream there!

Anyway, if you search the archives in freshwater fishing, you will find several threads from last year which might prove useful. You can search for a particular term, which I would recommend.

Second, I like the Big Jon manuals- you can get them used, sometimes for a bargain if you are patient. I didn't pay over $25 for either of mine, and I scored an electric Walker on eBay for not much more (lucky). I paid as much for swivel bases as I did the riggers LOL

I would stay away from the low-priced new ones with the horizontal reels. True, they work, but the next step up will keep you happy probably forever unless you find yourself needing an electric

I wouldn't use ANY other release besides The Chamberlain Release which can be bought a number of places but my fishing buddy owns The Old Fishing Hole in Morrisville VT. He has them in stock for a good price. Also, I like the 10# fish-shaped weights. They seem to blow back less then round balls.

Trolling techniques were discussed at length in those posts from last year. I would look them up and then ask specific questions here.

"WALLEYE A Handbook of Strategies" was useful to me, and I have gone over a ton of stuff by Keith Kavajecz (sp?) and Gary Parsons. The "Freshwater Angler" book about Walleye fishing at Walmart is actually pretty good as a primer.

After writing all that, I am going to say that for walleye, I have caught a lot more on flatlines, Big Jon diver disks, Shad Raps, and bottom bouncers than I have on downriggers... But that is where I fish, for one, and probably more importantly, I have seldom actually trolled with downriggers for walleye. So you can conclude I woudn't catch much on a particular method if I don't use it very often

Read up and then question away! And kudos on fishing with yoru daughter. I have two daughters; wish I had got them more into fishing.....

 

[BLU LUNCH]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

Those Chamberlain releases are nice I like the fact you can load the rods up more. I just ordered a pair for this year. The ones we had were so hard to detect small trout, thanks.........

 

[NMShooter]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

Thanks for the comments. I've been reading several of the threads on this site and it is becoming a bit more clear. Although I am starting from ground zero.

For instance... I thought that the release attached to the weight... but it appears to me that the release is attached to the cable somewhat above the weight, and that many of you will attach spinner attractors to the weight itself.

Some questions...

How far behind the release is the lure positioned?

Does the release have the capability to adjust for release tension? Seems like depending on what I am fishing for I probably want to change the release force.

Here's a weird question... I know some folks use trolling plates to get the speed down and the RPMs up a bit. Is it possible to troll and slow the boat by draggin a drift sock rather than using a plate? Or is that just asking for trouble WRT the motor and landing fish? Seems like directional control would be better. (I plan to get a ipilot eventually, but don't have the budget for it yet).

I've got an ok depth / fish finder, but am debating attaching the transducer to the stern. I am almost thinking that I want to put it on a rod that I can drop off of the bow, or out the side. Or does a stern mount transducer at trolling speeds work ok? (worried about boat turbulence)

I have two daughters as well. My oldest can care less about fishing. My youngest loves to fish and wants to hunt this year. She and I went on a Canada fishing trip last year and had a blast.

 

[NMShooter]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

The Chamberlain release looks awesome.... what a nice piece of engineering!

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

....the release is attached to the cable somewhat above the weight, and that many of you will attach spinner attractors to the weight itself....far behind the release is the lure positioned?......Does the release have the capability to adjust for release tension? Seems like depending on what I am fishing for I probably want to change the release force......Here's a weird question... I know some folks use trolling plates to get the speed down and the RPMs up a bit. Is it possible to troll and slow the boat by draggin a drift sock rather than using a plate? Or is that just asking for trouble WRT the motor and landing fish? Seems like directional control would be better.....I've got an ok depth / fish finder, but am debating attaching the transducer to the stern. I am almost thinking that I want to put it on a rod that I can drop off of the bow, or out the side. Or does a stern mount transducer at trolling speeds work ok? (worried about boat turbulence).....I have two daughters as well. My oldest can care less about fishing. My youngest loves to fish and wants to hunt this year. She and I went on a Canada fishing trip last year and had a blast.

1] I don't use flashers off the cannonball, but my fishing buddy does. From my boat. We both catch fish, and until he starts catching more than my side of the boat, I probably won't

2] The lure is positioned close sometimes, further others. Walleye don't seem to like the cannonball, so I run long leads. Salmon and Lake Trout seem to like checking out my fish-shaped weight; I set about 4-to-8 feet back for them, usually about 6 feet.

3] The Chamberlain Release is extremely adjustable, and consistently more so than other releases. You can set it light to trip for a 6" perch; then you don't wind up dragging a useless lure around for a 1/2 hour wondering why you aren't hooking up with anything. Or you can increase the pull to handle cowbells or other heavy-pull terminal gear and lures.

4] Trolling plates are fine- not for running higher RPM but for letting the main engine (which will likely be propped such that you get 2.7-3.5mph or more at an idle in gear) act as a troller. But a drift sock is probably more controllable (than a plate) and lets you maneuver quite precisely off its pivot point. PLUS if you need to slow a drift in a breeze, it can do that too. Pros use socks and their trolling motor(s) to precisely cover a breakline or whatever. Many times these are tied off the bow, so no issue with the motor unless you do something really dumb You might want to consider a five gallon pail or two with a rope on them for a lowbuck approach.

4.5] I use a bracket which connects the transom mount 44# Minnkota to my 40hp main engine. Then I can steer from the helm. BIG improvement. The electric troller is quiet, and the main engine acts as a rudder. We bias the electric (which is on the port side) to push a straight line when the main engine is straight ahead. A little loss of efficiency, but a gazillion times less attention to go straight and turn.

4.6] The 44# thrust electric is just about enough on my 14' Niagara. Not enough in a 15 knot breeze if it's not to your stern. But even in calmer conditions, I think a bigger electric would be better, ESPECIALLY on a 16' like you have.

5] you don't want the transducer any other place than at the stern. Transom mount is fine if you follow the instructions; use 5200 to seal the screws. Or a shoot-through application, but transom mount works great and will do you fine at ANY speed. Up front and you won't be able to get a reading at speed. A second sonar can be mounted up front if you have a forward fishing deck by using a trolling motor mount. That only works when the bowmount trolling motor is deployed, but no one should be up there when you are running above a troll anyway- not safe.

My older daughter used to ice fish and stuff with me and then... well the years go by, she got older (now 18), and lost interest. Then again I go fishing all day when I go...:redface: maybe I spoiled her. The younger (now 14) likes to go fishing, but for short periods. Plus she is very hard to convince to go fishing- but once she agrees to she's into it. Until I mention that she is enjoying it which is an almost immediate cue to become "bored." Personality thing...

Hope this helps,

Mark

 

[bugman1964]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

I do a lot of trolling here in Maine and never have used down riggers. I am not knocking them. Lots of people use them with great success. A less expensive alternative to down riggers is trolling rods set-up with lead core line. The line is weighted and divided into 10 yard colored sections. Depending on trolling speed each color out places your lure/bait down 5-10' in the water column. I fish by myself most of the time and when the water depth changes frequently I have no problems with speeding up the boat speed a bit and reeling in a couple of colors to avoid bottom snag. I think that would more problematic with hand crank down riggers. If money is an issue consider using line core.

 

[LongLine]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

Lead core & Dipseys can be a pain for kids that are used to fly Fishing. It takes some muscle to bring them in. On the Gr Lakes, all kinds of methodologies are used, most often a combination of rigg'rs, leadcore, Copper, Dipseys, planner boards, etc. If I were you I'd stick to rigg'rs and planner boards with the little ones until you get the hang of this type of fishing. You can generally pick up rigg'rs fairly cheap on e-bay.

For rigg'rs, stick with releases slightly above the weight. Releases on the weight tend to increase "blowback" i.e the way the weight tracks in the water. Yes, releases have tension adjustments. You'll find you want quite a bit of tension on them so you can put a lot of bow in your rod. You'll want the rod "loaded" i.e. bent over, so it'll take up some of the slack line and help set the hook. Light monofilament line will take a real beating. If you use mono, then nothing less than 15 Lb and check the line, especially where it was in the release and at the knot every hour or so and definitely retie after every fish. I personally like the polymer lines and go to 12 Lb on Lake Ontario w/ 8 1/2 ft rods. Reels are more important than rods with rigger's. Need a smooth drag.

Don't use a drift sock. Rather if you want to slow down either go to a quality trolling bag or buckets. River Drift socks won't last a long time when trolling.

Lot of guys use the "100 foot rule". Length plus amount of line out equals 100. i.e. if your weight is at 40 ft then lead should be 60 ft; if at 90 ft then lead should be 10 ft. The deeper you are, the shorter the lead. Most guys adjust leads according to what they see on their fish finders. If you have a 60 ft lead and see fish streaking at your weight on your fish finder then definitely shorten up the lead.

If you have two rigger's then stagger them at different depths, I.e if one is 30 ft down, then run the other at 20 ft down, otherwise you'll get tangled lines on every turn. Advantage to 2 rigg'rs and/or planner boards is that on turns, one lure will speed up and the other will slow down.

Boat turbulance won't be an issue if you mount the transducer according to the directions that came with it. I.e. on the downward stroke of you prop. For most engines this is on the starboard side at least 18 inches from the engine & make sure it is about 1/2 ich below the hull. Just make sure you seal the holes real well.

H.I.H.

Tom B.
(LongLine)

 

[NMShooter]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

Thanks for the tips... I'm gearing up (much to the delight of my local fishing shop). First on the agenda is kokanee salmon. I did buy a couple of stiffer rods than I needed, as I want to be able to use these for other things. I bought two Ugly Stick Big Water 7' Medium action rods with Penn 209MLH reels.

Got some locally recommended lures, attractors, snubbers.

Still need to buy my downriggers (hunting on ebay, not much success), weights, and Chamberlain releases.

Undecided yet on a higher end trolling motor.. maybe MinnKota autopilot. The Ipilot is a bit out of my range. Or might just go with a trolling plate on my boat. Would be nice not to have to listen to that motor all day.

Mounting my fish finder on the boat later today, and hoping to take it for a test run on Sunday.

Yee ha! Bring on fishing season!

 

[NMShooter]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

Just thought of another question...

I'm planning on running two downriggers.

When a fish gets on, is there a risk losing the fish in leaving the weights down? Or do both weights need to come up? Seems like there might be risks losing the fish either way....

Thoughts?

 

[LongLine]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

Lot of factors involved there. How big is the fish? What kind of fish? Can you control the fish? Do you steer straight? Do you have extra hands on board to get the rigger up? Where are you netting the fish? etc

On Lake Ontario, for Chinook Salmon, at least one of mine come up but I leave the weight maybe 4" under water so it can't flap around in the breeze & smash the hull.

Tom B.
(LongLine)

 

[Expidia]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

You could have a passenger crank the weight up so the fish does not get tangled in it.

I'd invest in a bow mount electric if you are out to buy an electric. It's a lot easier to pull the boat then it is to push it. On transom mounted electrics you will spend most of your time trying to keep the boat on a straight course. The bow is narrower than the stern so the wind tends to constantly move the bow to the left or right.

Don't forget to brace your down riggers when you get them with a backing plate under the deck. They tend to put a lot of stress on the boat's structure.

For more info just Google "down rigger tips" there is more info on the web than you will ever need on trolling!

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

...When a fish gets on, is there a risk losing the fish in leaving the weights down? Or do both weights need to come up? Seems like there might be risks losing the fish either way....Thoughts?

No, we don't usually clear the downriggers when a fish is on. Taking the time to clear lines- sometimes. But usually we just keep right on trolling and one or the other of us clear lines- if necessary or desired. A big runner: we might clear lines. But fooling around cranking up a rigger while a fish is on? Nope.

Other thing is if you pull up the weights or other lines in, you don't have your lures in a productive zone. Lures out of the water don't catch fish. Plus, most charters don't clear lines when someone has a fish on; they just keep right on going intent on getting more hookups.

You and your daughter will be fine with your tackle. My daughters both have asked to crank the boat in just for fun. If they are capable of cranking the winch, why in the world wouldn't your daughter be able to handle a fishing pole with leadcore or whatever. My 2-cents...

Oh, and be patient with the learning curve. Fish enough to starts seeing some success and pattern it. Repeat

 

[noworries79]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

Have you thought about using planers? I don't fish freshwater too often, but planers might be a good alternative. You can even rig your planer with a release feature, basically a poor man's down rigger. I am not sure how deep you are wanting to troll, but there is some good info on this method online. Good luck!

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

Have you thought about using planers? I don't fish freshwater too often, but planers might be a good alternative. You can even rig your planer with a release feature, basically a poor man's down rigger. I am not sure how deep you are wanting to troll, but there is some good info on this method online. Good luck!

I assume you are meaning a diving planer like a Jet Diver or Walker discs?

 

[NMShooter]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

Thanks to everybody for the comments. I think you are going to be able to get us headed in the right direction!

Slowly getting rigged. Bought two Ugly sticks and Penn 209 reels. Both spooled with 15 lb test. We're after lake trout first, then Kokanee. I figure i can drop down to 8lb test after the dodger for the salmon. Bought two Chamberlain releases...amazing design! Found two swivel bases on ebay, and am still hunting a couple of downriggers. I've been watching some Big Jon manuals, and am amazed at how high the resale value is. Yeah, I know... this is the time that everybody is gearing up.

Looking for a trolling plate too. Seems like for Lake trout I have to go even slower than for kokanee. I think I read 1mph or less.

I'm also looking at Walker downriggers. Are they of any good quality?

I thought about mounting the downriggers to a 2X6 that would span the width of my boat in the back, and clamp the 2X6 to my gunwhales. Thoughts?

I'm sure I'll be back with location questions for the downriggers. I have a couple of options if I decide to mount them directly to my boat.

The downriggers I've found have been fairly short boom versions. Am I going to be able to get the wire out far enough away from my prop with 2' booms?

Thanks for the support and the tips. Should be able to get on the lake in a week or two. (Ice is still covering the ramp).

Regards,

Frank

 

[LongLine]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

When using dodgers/flashers on the Great Lakes, the leader between the dodger and lure is 40-50Lb test. This gives your bait more action from the attractor. Also any shock from the hit is absorbed more in your main line and rod. i.e. you don't want that short section to be able to take more of a beating than the long section. (use flouro' for that section)

Yes, Lakers like it slower than other species.

Rigg'r brands are like the old Ford/Chevy debate. All have good points. (metal construction, belt/gear drive, etc) Big jons, Walkers are good brands but probably more expensive. Personally cannons have been good for me. Swivel bases may not be interchangeable.

I'd recomend the board approach and mount rod holders on it also. I'd use a 2 x 8" board & seal it really well. Whether 2ft boom is long enough depends on where they are mounted. I.E. how far aft can you put it? If you're going to run amidship then no they're not long enough. If you've got them within 20" of the transom & are mounting them out on the ends then yes they're long enough. Clamping works but I like the idea of screwing the board down throgh and into a backer plate.

H.I.H.

Tom B.
(LongLine)

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

....you don't want that short section to be able to take more of a beating than the long section....

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

I just wanted to add that Penn makes a good downrigger, we used manuals for years on the great lakes for salmon and trout. My dad upgraded to electric walkers when he got a bigger boat and I just feel lazy when I fish with him now LOL.

I'm looking at getting set up with a couple used riggers myself and I agree...they seem to hold their value like gold or manhattan real estate even used.

A lower cost alternative is to run planer boards or as mentioned, long lines. A couple used planers will get your lines out but don't help as far as depth. A good diving rapala, hot-n-tot or dipsy diver is another way to get your lines a little deeper.

If you do run 2' booms be aware when turning not to go too sharply or you can get hung up. Good advice from MarkVT as always

Good luck getting rigged up!

 

[LongLine]

Re: Any good tips for a noob to trolling?

Brain damage.... You DO want that short section to be able to take more of a beating. You DO NOT want it to break off due to the shock of a hit. You DO want a lot of the shock to go the main line & the rod.

Sorry about that.:redface:

Tom B.
(LongLine)