Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

[E4ODnut]

I am embarking on a project to convert a pair of marine 351 Windsor engines to EFI. I've just found out that Volvo Penta in cooperation with OMC offered these engines for a few years but are relatively rare. I am most interested to know what design they used for the intake manifold, and if they used an O2 sensor for exhaust gas oxygen feed back. I'd appreciate any information at all so I can compare my intentions with what has been done by others.

Thanks,

 

[farmhand2710]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

I have a 1994 Four Winns 214 Candia with the 5.8L EFI. I will check the O2 sensor out and it's location. If there is anything else you need let me know.

 

[NapaBavarian]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

Oh boy...

 

[E4ODnut]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

farmhand,
Wonderful!

Are you familiar with the automotive 5.8? As far as I know they were only available in trucks, as opposed to cars. The intake manifold is made with two components, the upper and lower manifold. The lower manifold has machined bosses for the injectors, and individual runners that are oval shaped and in a row, for and aft. The upper manifold is of a "tuned port" design and terminates in a two chamber plenum. The throttle body bolts to this plenum at the front of the engine and at an angle inwards. This upper manifold is quite large, about 7" high and 9" wide. Does the manifold on your engine look like this?

NapaBavarian,
Yup, could get interesting.

 

[NapaBavarian]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

As long as they keep yelling over in my thread we can get some work done over here!

 

[Don S]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

Here are parts breakdowns for the Volvo 5.8 Fi and FSi (Both fuel injected) engines. the FL in the link is a carbed engine.
http://www.volvopentastore.com/5-8-...*****.439825558--store_id.366--view_id.342505

O2 sensors have not been used on marine engines until this year, and they are only used on the new GM based engines with Catalitic converters in the exhaust manifolds.

Here is a Volvo service manual for the Ford MFI engines. Should help you understand how the system was put together.
http://www.4shared.com/document/Xo9K__s-/HU_Ford_MFI_7788852.html

Between the parts and service manual, you will see what is different between the automotive and marine setups.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

Yup, the marine FI engines (up until this year with the cats) are a closed-loop system. No O2 sensors installed because they wouldn't be of much use when getting soaked with water from the exhaust.

I don't think I would bother converting them to FI simply because there isn't much added benefit compared to the cost/complexity of the conversion. You will have to find/fab several brackets for things like the ECU/wiring harness. The existing cam may/may not work with electronic components (i.e. cam position sensor). Just some things to think about, but you won't really be making any more power than with a carb.

 

[E4ODnut]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

Don,
Thanks very much for the links. The service manual is excellent, and answers several questions.

Unfortunately when I try the Volvo link I get a message stating that it is available in the US only. Apart from moving to the States, can you think of a work around for this?

Haulnazz15,
I'm under no illusions as to the cost, effort and probable benefits of this project. I do it because I can, it's a challenge and it's fun. It also helps to be more than a bit masochistic.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

Hey Robert,

Are you REALLY an E4OD "nut"?

 

[E4ODnut]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

Hey Robert,

Are you REALLY an E4OD "nut"?

Yup

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

You task will be formidable one and quite costly...I will say its fascinating to really learn how efi works. I hope your a skilled programmer and have a great deal of tuning experience..with that said here a some basic links for you to start...

http://www.michaelstractors.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=199

That site literally wil has enough info for you to really understand the whole journey..


http://www.obd2allinone.com/sc/toplevel.asp?cat=0

That site has some of the best tuning avaible they are very informed...But you need there software to get going...Its about 1000..


http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/

Huge amount of practical infor there..

Im not trying to disuade you but you probably could drop a hell of lot less money down and get it all aside from a turn key starting engine....

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=mefi...1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=d9804d37b84b33a1

Mefi 3 is almost extinict...but there is some support from GM on there on old ram jet stuff

In all marine efi seems to be a closely gaurded secret few other than gm itself understand or have experience with the product....

Heres a short cut...OBD 11 more than problaby has some tunes or bin files already set up for a 350...Pick up a mefi 4b system have them flash the bin files for the motors ..get a wide band ox sensor....adujstable fuel pressure regulator and start tuning...

http://www.accel-dfi.com/pdf/WideBand02_EngineAnalyzer.pdf

Opps i see your doing ford motors....Give obd a call and see if they have any tunes for the engines...

The commander system has had some good views.....

http://www.holley.com/division/Holley.asp#101

Good luck

 

[E4ODnut]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

Tail_Gunner,
I appreciate the links. Even though I've been at this for a while, it's always good to look at different information. Lots of times you can pick up little gems of wisdom, or just a different way of doing things.

Here's a couple of links that might explain where my head is at regarding EFI and transmission control.

http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=1490

http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=22956

Nobody ever said that I was sane.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

Tail_Gunner,
I appreciate the links. Even though I've been at this for a while, it's always good to look at different information. Lots of times you can pick up little gems of wisdom, or just a different way of doing things.

Here's a couple of links that might explain where my head is at regarding EFI and transmission control.

http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=1490

http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=22956

Nobody ever said that I was sane.

...So you are in tune...:redface: cheap funny...I started on a boat over a yr ago with no prior experience in tuning or the lingo used it has been overwhelming from time to time. Staying with marine delphi for ins reasons there have been many deepholes....seeing your using a ford product made me twinge a bit..but you have a deep backround and resources.

Are you planning a closed system.... it seems as much....I simply dont have to much faith in running a open system and keeping tigh AF ratio's... above 4000 rpm

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

Yup

I sent you a PM!!

 

[E4ODnut]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

Tail_Gunner,
I'm pretty sure that all the OEMs run open loop at full, or near full throttle.
I run both my existing vehicles open loop exclusively, but I keep the O2 sensor for reference all the time. You can set it up to run closed loop and have a custom A/F table over the operating range, but then you are depending on accurate feedback from the O2 sensor. I've found that the readings can vary a bit under similar conditions, so I prefer to set my maps up as best I can and run open. I can change fuel mix and timing on the fly without a lap top so I can play around with it a bit if I suspect something isn't quite right. I've got things dialed in pretty good now, but there is always the temptation to see if it can't be improved upon. I think that's the addictive part.

 

[farmhand2710]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

farmhand,
Wonderful!

Are you familiar with the automotive 5.8? As far as I know they were only available in trucks, as opposed to cars. The intake manifold is made with two components, the upper and lower manifold. The lower manifold has machined bosses for the injectors, and individual runners that are oval shaped and in a row, for and aft. The upper manifold is of a "tuned port" design and terminates in a two chamber plenum. The throttle body bolts to this plenum at the front of the engine and at an angle inwards. This upper manifold is quite large, about 7" high and 9" wide. Does the manifold on your engine look like this?

NapaBavarian,
Yup, could get interesting.

The manifold is a two piece and quite large, as you mentioned. Attached is a picture of the intake manifold, and two pictures of the engine wiring diagrams.





Also the intake manifold with the oval ports in a line is the 5.0L engine, the 5.8L manifold has the ports in a staggered line as shown in the attached picture.

 

[farmhand2710]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

E4ODnut,
I am also working on a MEGASQUIRT project. I have the MSII V3.0 and am working on setting it up for a JAGUAR V12 5.3L HE that I am putting into a 1987 F150 pickup. Good luck with the boat project!

 

[E4ODnut]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

Farmhand,
Thanks so much for the information and photos. I've read elsewhere that there were several versions of the 5.8 lower manifold. One is like the configuration in the diagrams you sent, with offset round ports, the other is with inline oval ports, which is the truck version I have. No matter. What is important is that it looks like Volvo/OMC have their own custom upper manifold which is quite a bit shorter than the truck version with the throttle body coming off the side as opposed to the front. I think that this is similar to some of the 5 litre Mustangs, but I don't know for sure. Fascinating.

Your project sounds extremely interesting and I'm sure that Megasquirt will serve you well. There have been several applications using the Jag V12 that I know of so you have a good knowledge base to fall back on.

I can't say enough good things about Megasquirt. It began as an open source project for enthusiasts (nuts?) like myself to learn and grow from, and has evolved to to "almost" an all singing, all dancing, plug and play solution for programmable EFI fans of all types. It offers many options "out of the box" but still allows the purist to modify the code to their own needs. If you already have MS experience, you know what I mean. If this is your first go at it, you'll love it and the support forums are top notch.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

Yup MS is an outstanding platform for customized engine control. The 240Z/280Z guys love it.

 

[NapaBavarian]

Re: Anyone have experience with the Volvo Penta/OMC 5.8L EFI engine?

E4OD-

I'm now curious about various vertions of the lower manifold, do you know where they were 351 VS 302? Was it truck VS car? Model year determined?

I was looking at 302s and same year engines might make 185hp in a pickup VS 225hp in a Mustang, I was unable to find what the sedan/wagon 302's put out, although I'd be tempted to look for a wrecked towncar if I didn't intend to overhaul the engine, higher end cars are better maintained and not raced/beat on.

The higher HP in a otherwise similar engine would typically indicate power moved up in the RPM band, better power curve for a boat.