Bayliner Floor Project

[weeniehutjr]

Hey guys,


Just recently bought a 2000 Bayliner Capri 2350LX, with the dreaded soft floor. But, on the bright side, it's got a brand new motor (with straight pipes!) Got a decent deal on it. Planned on just avoiding the area, but the first mate wants that seat where it's soft. And you guys know, gotta keep the first mate happy... I'm really hoping the stringers are alright, if not I'm gonna try to keep what I can and stitch in good stringer where it's rotted out.

I've watched friscoboater's youtube series a bit on his project (still watching as I write this) as well as Ryan Rutter's series on it. I'm gonna get some 1708 with poly on order tonight, along with some gel coat. There's a few places near me that I can get marine plywood at. Gonna start ripping the floor out this weekend before it starts to get too hot here in Florida.

My plan is this: rip the floor out, check stringers, stitch new stringers if needed, glass and gel coat stitched stringers, put down new floor, tab in, pour foam, glass and gel coat floor, put EVA decking down.

I think I will use Ryan Rutter's method of using surface sealer (wax) on the last coat of gel coat.

My questions are this:

• What's your overall advice for taking on this kinda project?
• Do I need to remove the gas tank to check underneath? It's currently full (65 gallons)
• Do I need to glass the bottom side of the plywood floor before putting it down? Or is resin enough?
• Is the pour foam really needed/worth it?
• Which is better? Structural polyester putty? Or make my own peanut butter (thickened poly resin)?
• Use 5200, PL glue, or putty/peanut butter for the surface between the stringers and floor?
• Do I need to tab in the floor if using 1708 across the whole thing?
• 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for the floor?
• When going to put the seats back in, do I screw them in over the EVA decking? Or put the seats back in before the EVA, and if so, Is there anything that needs to go between the seats and the floor?

Attached are some pics of where the floor is soft at. Seems to only be on the port side of the boat.

Unfortunately I don't have a garage to do the project in, so my driveway/front yard will have to do (when is isn't raining).

 

[aspeck]

Make sure you check the transom well ... a 25 year old Bayliner that has a soft floor will probably have rot elsewhere also.

 

[Pmt133]

I'll answer how I feel and based on what I did...

My questions are this:

• What's your overall advice for taking on this kinda project?

Take lots of pictures, measurements and drawings before diving in. What ever material you think you need order some extra. And plan on everything being a loss as they typically rot bottom up.

• Do I need to remove the gas tank to check underneath? It's currently full (65 gallons)

I would. If it's a poly tank you're probably fine but the support under it may be gone.

• Do I need to glass the bottom side of the plywood floor before putting it down? Or is resin enough?

I left the wood bare underneath on mine. It was done that way originally and lasted some 40 years without being completely gone.

• Is the pour foam really needed/worth it?

It adds rigidity. It isnt needed above 20 feet per say... but it was probably done for a reason.

• Which is better? Structural polyester putty? Or make my own peanut butter (thickened poly resin)?

I made my own, allowed me to make whatever consistency I needed for the task at hand.

• Use 5200, PL glue, or putty/peanut butter for the surface between the stringers and floor?

I did peanut butter to bond the floor to stringers. My original was stapled. I PL adhesived nailers to the stringers for the screw down of the floor and back filled all holes woth 5200.

• Do I need to tab in the floor if using 1708 across the whole thing?

I did a short 1708 tab to the hull overlapped by a longer sheet of 1708 that fully encapsulated the deck and bonded it to the hull and stringer.

• 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for the floor?

I put back what was there in my case so half inch. 3/4 adds a lot of weight and may be unnecessary.

• When going to put the seats back in, do I screw them in over the EVA decking? Or put the seats back in before the EVA, and if so, Is there anything that needs to go between the seats and the floor?

I'd fit around the seats so they are flush to the deck.

 

[jbcurt00]

Your 1st mate needs an extra stripe(?promotion in rank) 'round these parts, that'd be The Admiral.....


Otherwise welcome and good luck, likely more work ahead then you expect or want

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

• What's your overall advice for taking on this kinda project?

That has a lot of answers. Take lots of measurements, get all materials ready before starting, don't skip the safety gear.

• Do I need to remove the gas tank to check underneath? It's currently full (65 gallons)

Probably. If you're fixing stringers or bulkheads within 1ft or so then definitely. If you think they're rotten "here", then it's likely to extend farther than you think.

• Do I need to glass the bottom side of the plywood floor before putting it down? Or is resin enough?

We just use resin on the bottom. Do the edges too before you set it in.

• Is the pour foam really needed/worth it?

Yes.

• Which is better? Structural polyester putty? Or make my own peanut butter (thickened poly resin)?

Thicken your own resin. It's easy enough.

• Use 5200, PL glue, or putty/peanut butter for the surface between the stringers and floor?

You really don't need anything between the floor and stringers. Just screw it down with drywall screws. People will say stainless, but it's a waste of money. You'll be glassing over them and they'll last as long or longer than the wood anyway.

• Do I need to tab in the floor if using 1708 across the whole thing?

The floor should be glassed up the hull about six inches all around, and across all seams. We do 2 layers of csm and one roving. The EVA will show any uneveness worse than carpet, so make it as uniform as you can across the whole thing. You could also do byply across it all.

• 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for the floor?

5/8

• When going to put the seats back in, do I screw them in over the EVA decking? Or put the seats back in before the EVA, and if so, Is there anything that needs to go between the seats and the floor?

Putting seats on top of the foam decking could give them a tiny bit of wobble as the foam compresses. Over time, it could loosen or pull out screws. Maybe/maybe not, but sounds logical to me. Get with an upholstery shop and ask about having them cut it and put nice borders (hems?) around it. Snapping in for easy removal would be nice for cleaning, but snaps tend to come loose from the floor and be weak areas for tears in the foam/carpet. Up to you to decide how to go.

 

[briangcc]

On the exhaust, I might check into putting it back through the outdrive.

This based on what I was told during my safe boating class this past weekend where in NY if you are deemed too loud, you can be cited and pulled off the water. Instructor made a point this was going to be an enforcement point this year...along with mandatory boaters safety cards on the water.

I would imagine if we're doing it, others may be as well, or at least looking at implementing... better safe than sorry.

 

[Lou C]

One thing I can add, having been through this fun adventure myself about 18 years ago (like PTSD, I still recoil at the smell of a damp wet boat thinking of the rot happening inside) is that carpet is the DEATH of wood cored boats.
After we did the deck/stringers in my '88 Four Winns I took all that crappy carpet and threw it in the trash. And because my skills weren't good enough, I had a 'glass shop glass in the new deck for me and gelcoat it in non skid gelcoat. Otherwise the deck will not dry out, the carpet does nothing but hide sloppy factory glass work and holds in moisture around every single hole you drill to fasten seats, etc.
So on mine, every hole was caulked with 4200. No carpet, and 18 years later that deck is still solid. No inside storage, boat is stored with a good fitting custom cover but I live in a damp climate, and moisture and mildew is a constant problem (coastal Long Island NY) we are like 300 ft from the water.
Wood cored deck, just say NO to carpet! In any open boat, unless you can store it inside or live in the desert southwest!



after it was done in 2007. it's just now at the point where I might get the gelcoat re-done.
So since the original was rotted bad when it was about 15 years old, it's now 18 years later and that proves that no carpet will greatly extend the life of your wood cored deck.

 

[Scott Danforth]

First, Welcome aboard

Second.

I'm really hoping the stringers are alright,

the floor is the last to rot after stringers and transom. if you get one of the only bayliners that only has floor rot, run to publix and buy a lottery ticket.

Gonna start ripping the floor out this weekend before it starts to get too hot here in Florida.

Third Where in Florida? weather is already "warm" here. most of the fiberglass selling places are in Florida. I prefer FGCI in St Pete

Fourth. go here. https://forums.iboats.com/threads/how-tos-and-other-great-information.283508/ Frisco's full thread is link 14

look at links 14, 15, 18, 2, 3, 4a and 4b in that exact order. go thru every picture and video.

Skip the EVA, the stuff fails. look into Line-X XS650 developed for the florida sun and all the abuse you can throw at it. right here in Sarasota Florida. https://sarasotalinex.com/line-x-protective-coatings/line-x-xs-650/

 

[Scott Danforth]

My questions are this:

• What's your overall advice for taking on this kinda project?

expect it to take 4 times as long as you plan and cost 3x the amount

• Do I need to remove the gas tank to check underneath? It's currently full (65 gallons)

yes

• Do I need to glass the bottom side of the plywood floor before putting it down? Or is resin enough?

resin by itself will fail.

• Is the pour foam really needed/worth it?

yes, and it will keep you alive. it is also part of the structure

• Which is better? Structural polyester putty? Or make my own peanut butter (thickened poly resin)?

make your own PB

• Use 5200, PL glue, or putty/peanut butter for the surface between the stringers and floor?

Us PB.

• Do I need to tab in the floor if using 1708 across the whole thing?

Yes

• 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for the floor?

1/2" is more than plenty. my boat has 1/2" balsa core with 2 layers of 1708 over it and you can dance on it.

• When going to put the seats back in, do I screw them in over the EVA decking? Or put the seats back in before the EVA, and if so, Is there anything that needs to go between the seats and the floor?

you get the EVA cut and finished around it. however I would not run EVA other than in a cabin down here in florida. (And a sister company makes the stuff)

 

[JASinIL2006]

Lots of good answers. I would add that it's a good idea to get things apart before you start ordering supplies. It's often cheaper to order in bulk and you need to know exactly what you'll be replacing. And don't skimp on the personal protective equipment (PPE); fiberglass and resin in your lungs and eyes is nothing to trifle with.

 

[weeniehutjr]

First off, thanks guys for all the info. This thread is doing better than I really imagined. This has been super helpful already. Made the same post on another page and it was very negative... "sell it buy a real boat" "you bought a hole in the water"
I appreciate the confidence this thread is bringing so far.

@Scott Danforth

The thread you linked is everything that I have been looking for, it's perfect.

I'm in Ponte Vedra/JAX beach area. Coming to the realization that this will be in progress all the way until June probably, so that will be interesting as I just moved here from PA in January. Nothing like experiencing Florida heat for the first time in the middle of a project.

I really like the look and feel of the EVA floor. I planned on getting a roll and cutting it myself. So if it does inevitably fail I'll just peel up and replace. In theory, shouldn't be too hard over gel coat. And I keep the boat covered on a trailer.

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

I would guess the negativity mostly comes from the fact that fixing it will probably cost more than it's worth resale wise. But it's still cheaper than buting a new one.

Does that EVA have smooth backing between the foam and adhesive (not sure how to describe what I'm thinking of) or is it adhesive directly to foam? The former is a lot of work to peel up, the latter will drive you insane as it breaks into little pieces.

 

[weeniehutjr]

I would guess the negativity mostly comes from the fact that fixing it will probably cost more than it's worth resale wise. But it's still cheaper than buting a new one.

Does that EVA have smooth backing between the foam and adhesive (not sure how to describe what I'm thinking of) or is it adhesive directly to foam? The former is a lot of work to peel up, the latter will drive you insane as it breaks into little pieces.

Looks like just adhesive right to foam to me. I haven't worked with it personally yet. But I got some samples because I was going to put it on a jetski I rebuilt last year, and I really like the look and feel of it.

 

[briangcc]

I have Seadek on my swim platform. Installed in 2018 and only have a few spots starting to lift. I may "limp" it by with some 3M double sided adhesive tape as it was rather costly to have custom made.

Other than that, there are no rips/tears in it whatsoever. Easily a good 20 degrees cooler on the feet than vinyl or even the antiskid gel.

Think you'll like it as I do see it now as options on new boats instead of snap in carpet. I still like the carpet in the cockpit, I don't have issues with it trapping water or hooks. That's just me though.

 

[Scott Danforth]

FYI, the boat in my signature thread took 5 years to restore

 

[Scott Danforth]

FYI, I designed the movable staircase in Frank Blase's house in Ponte Vedra. It the house on the beach that looks like a giant Lego Duplex block on its side

 

[froggy1150]

Mine took a few years to do. Is nothing special BUT I took real care to go above and beyond for the structural integrity so I know what's under the deck. I will never get half of the money I put into in back out if I was to sell and I got my resin below cost and everything else was almost free. The time was the biggest thing. It took way longer than I thought because of LIFE. As long as you understand that and are OK with the possibility of not finishing for the summer, unless you are a work animal, it will be worth it

 

[Pmt133]

Mine took a few years to do. Is nothing special BUT I took real care to go above and beyond for the structural integrity so I know what's under the deck. I will never get half of the money I put into in back out if I was to sell and I got my resin below cost and everything else was almost free. The time was the biggest thing. It took way longer than I thought because of LIFE. As long as you understand that and are OK with the possibility of not finishing for the summer, unless you are a work animal, it will be worth it

This is the biggest thing here. I was only able to finish in ~7 months because I do shift work. So I'm always on 2 off 2 on 3 off 2 on 2 off 3 and then it repeats. And I was able to dedicate 16 hours to it when I did work on it. Most people don't have that luxury at all. All in I spent 68 working days on it. That included days I only spent 20 minutes doing something or I was on it the whole day.

Life will get in the way, I agree. Luckily it got in the way after it was floating and I just couldn't enjoy it for the fall as much as I wanted to. My original goal was July 4th. I lost a month because the space I was working in gassed out the house and I had to stop glassing. I probably would've made it if I could've just plowed right through. But instead I did tedious BS and wasted a lot of time...

And yes, all in I spent nearly 20k mainly because of all the ancillary parts. Wiring, rigging, etc. The glass/resin was the bulk of it. My little 19 soaked up nearly 35 gallons of resin all said and done. So plan accordingly. I have about 3 gallons left of my order of 35...

Edit: and I'm big on PPE. I'm a haz-mat guy so I have access to a lot of things most people wouldn't. But I still went and bought my own equipment to always have. It's an investment in your future if you ask me.

 

[aspeck]

Good luck with your project and be safe and use the PPE! And don't be upset if you are not finished with this project by June. IT TAKES TIME TO DO IT RIGHT! If you are going to do it, take your time and do it right! Then you will be able to enjoy your boat for a long time!

 

[weeniehutjr]

Well guys, the wind has been taken out of my sails on this one. Feeling like Frisco in his first episode explaining everything.

Took the boat out today and yesterday to try and burn as much gas out of the tank as possible before starting this. Every time I've had the boat out it felt "flimsy" I assumed this was from the fact of the soft floor. Hit a huge wake today and I'm pretty sure that's what cracked the bulkheads in the ski locker when I checked it today.

Took a bunch of measurements of seat positions, ski locker position, anything I though would be helpful before pulling the floor up. Took a bunch of pics of everything before taking the seat boxes out. Took the seat boxes out and found what I was expecting, the soft spots.

However, after pushing through the soft spot to see what was under it I was severely disappointed, and a bit confused at the same time. So, as I was dreading to find out, the stringers are indeed rotten. But, what I'm confused about is the structure under the floor. I was under the impression that boat construction was the fiberglass hull, the stringers and bulkheads, then floor. There's no foam under it either, which definitely helps on demo so I'm glad for that. This boat has what seems to be a thick stringer running along the hull but it's not tied into anything. Just seems to be there to give the hull more strength.

Now I'm wondering, what do I do to tie in this thicker stringer to the bulkheads? And what do I do with this massive buckle in the fiberglass when they glassed in this thicker stringer?
Is it even worth it at this point to tear this boat down to the hull and rebuild?

It's got a brand new 350 in it that runs great and that was the main selling point to me really. I'm just left disappointed, and confused on what to do next.