Bell Housing Pin Removal

[NZ-Kevin]

I need to take the bell housing off a 1976 165. The manual says "remove cotter pins". How do you remove a pin that is flush with the gimble ring and has no rear access?? Should this pin be sticking out to grab it?

 

[Pete104]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

It looks like a nail. The "head" of the nail looks "flush"! Turn the wheel side to side to get access to bend the "points" straight. You'll see the slots on the front side of the gimbal ring.

 

[ziggy]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

pete104 is right. nails bisect the hinge pin. the hinge pin holds the gimble ring to the bell housing. the nail keeps the hing pin in place.
ya remove the nail first. as pete said, look on the fore side of the gimble ring to see the nail bent into it's slot. unbend the tip of the nail and work the nail aft and remove the nail. try to save the nail if ya can. there were large and small nails used. i think ya got the small nail if it's like mine. the small nail is nla.
once the nail is removed. there's screw threads in the hinge pin. 1/4-28 i believe. if the hinge pin won't come out, use a slam hammer on it screwed into the screw threads of the hing pin. the real little hole on the hinge pin is so ya can rotate it during install to line up the hole to put the nail back in..

turn the drive full starboard or port to see the fore side of the gimble ring so ya can see the sharp end of the nail so ya can unbend it.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

What he said ^^^

Here's a few pics I took of mine - before and after:

 

[NZ-Kevin]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

thanks fishermark, the photo was extremely helpful. I have straightened the end of the pin on one side, but can't get it out. I really need to get a punch on the end to drive it out, but obviously I can't do that as it won't turn far enough to get to it. I can't even find the bent end on the other side, so I need to get a punch on that as well. Is there any way to take the gimbal housing off with the ring attached so I can get it on the bench to press the pins out? Just for good measure ther drive shaft is still stuck in as well -possibly rusted into the gimbal bearing.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

Have you tried using a flathead screwdriver to get between the nail head and the gimbal ring? You just need to work with it a bit and the nail will eventually move out enough to get a pair of pliers or a claw hammer to grab a hold of the head and pull it ouf the rest of the way. The only other option you really have is to grind off of chisel off the nail head and try to punch it out from the front, but that's a lot more of a PITA. Rmember that a threaded screw can be inserted into the pins themselves in order to pull them out of the housings once the nails are removed.

I wouldn't worry about saving the nails, as they sell new ones for pretty cheap and you only need to run a slightly larger drill bit through the gimbal ring to increase the diameter for the new nails as opposed to reusing a bent up nail. Make sure you grease the pins before you stick them back in.

 

[NZ-Kevin]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

Thanks haulnazz, I had thought after my post that I cound grind the head off and push them out the back. I don't hold out much hope of pulling them as I hit the back as hard as I could, putting a piece of flat steel bar on it and hitting the bar with a hammer, and it didn't move at all. it is a 1976 unit and they have probably never been out.

The fit of the actual hinge pin is very sloppy, would it be easier to make an oversive pin and enlarge the hole or drill the hole oversized and fit a bush?

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

it is a 1976 unit and they have probably never been out.

The fit of the actual hinge pin is very sloppy, would it be easier to make an oversive pin and enlarge the hole or drill the hole oversized and fit a bush?

Well, until I pulled my outdrive pins, I doubt they had ever been removed either (1976 unit as well), but we have always kept the pins well greased via the zerks on either side. I wouldn't worry about oversizing the pin/holes. Unless there is enough slop to cause significant play, I'd just stick in the old pins and go on. I suppose you could try to over size the pins, but oversizing the holes may be difficult as the metal is usually brittle and might crack/break under the stress of being overbored.

 

[NZ-Kevin]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

OK, I'm getting desperate now. I can't get the nail out. It wouldn't knock through from the back, so I ground the nead off and tried to punch it through. But I'm now at the biggest hammer I can use and no movement at all. The whole head is definately off as it's ground back into the casting now. Tried to get a drill in to drill it out (which is always going to be bad, as the drill will end up in the softer aluminium). I'm out of ideas, and the whole drive is looking disturbingly like scrap right now.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

I don't know that I am officially suggesting this.... as I have no clue as to what damage, if any, it would cause... but here's a thought:

If you genuinely cannot get the nail out, what are the chances of simply driving the pin inward from the outside and shearing the nail?

The nail is only aluminum and the pin is steel. The problem is the ring itself is aluminum as well and could break off. If you have a good sharp drill bit and a steady hand, you may be able to drill out the nail without any subsequent damage... but anything you try at this point has the possibility of doing damage.

 

[ziggy]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

i'm w/fm.
your at the point that yer either gonna win or lose as your down to some kinda forcible extraction.
myself. i think i'd go with the drill bit down the nail. trying to keep in the center of the nail. maybe start with the existing dia. of the nail, then if ya drift off, perhaps go to the larger size nail hole and ream the whole old nail out and size up to the new larger nail.
i'm a little ambivalent about the force the hinge pin and shear the nail. shear strength may be pretty solid. maybe go w/ drill bit, then after some of the nail is gone (the part of the nail that's inside the hinge pin will need to be gone), then try and drift the hinge pin out (fm's idea), after the nail has lost some shear strength due to it being drilled out.

what ever ya do, don't break off a drill bit in it... that'd leave ya sol for sure if the drill bit couldn't be extracted.

if drilling, staying on center of the nail will be of most importance i'd think. probably hard to do to. will be hard to tell when your in the cast alum of the gimble ring or the solid alum. of the nail.

bummer about your woes, and good luck/skill..

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

Just a thought: have you tried applying heat at all? Maybe a torch might help break the nail free. Obviously you'll need to be careful as you're messing with aluminum and grease in the area, but you should be able to aid in breaking the nail free.

 

[TomSawyerOwner]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

Just a thought: have you tried applying heat at all? Maybe a torch might help break the nail free. Obviously you'll need to be careful as you're messing with aluminum and grease in the area, but you should be able to aid in breaking the nail free.

Before you try heating it I have a secret mixture to break loose stuff like this. I was shocked how well the stuff works and I'll never buy another can of penetrating oil again. 50/50 mix of Dextron transmission fluid and acetone. just soak the pin good and let it sit for a while or even overnite. this mixture is amazing I put it on anything rusted that needs broke loose. Even removed the brake bleeders out of my 1988 bronco with a open end wrench like they were installed the day before. Good Luck!

 

[NHGuy]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

If you end up drilling start with a center punch and use a small bit. The punch mark will keep the drill on "target" at the outset and a smaller bit will be able to go down the middle of the nail without ruining the cylinder it goes through.
I'd do the crazy concoction first though, it could work.

 

[achris]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

Crazy concoction, drill off the head, drive the rest out with a pin punch (not a centre punch).

 

[NZ-Kevin]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

Thanks for the suggestions. Drilling isn't practical as there isn't enough room to get a drill in at the correct angle due to the bell housing. I tried it, but realised the drill wouldn't go square so abandoned that idea. The nails are stainless steel, so I don't think I could realistically shear them off. I don't have any ATF, but do have acetone and power steering fluid so I might try that. A bit of heat might also work, I was avoiding it as it would burn the paint off the ginmbal ring but I think its got beyond that now.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

The nails are stainless steel, so I don't think I could realistically shear them off.

There's your problem. The original nail is aluminum. Stainless and Aluminum have the tendency to bond together - especially when coupled with the catalyst of water. If the penetrating oil doesn't work, then I have no idea what to suggest from here.

 

[achris]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

.... If the penetrating oil doesn't work, then I have no idea what to suggest from here.

Lots of warm spanner perhaps?

 

[NZ-Kevin]

Re: Bell Housing Pin Removal

There is apossibility I can buy a seconshand alpha1 drive complete (leg & transom mount, etc). How difficult would it be to swa from the 165 to the Alpha1?