Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

[scottoz]

I have a 21' Seafarer cabin cruiser. I am looking at either Bennett 120's or Lectotab (electric worm drives). My first question is which are the best - which are faster to react? Is it worth paying the extra money and getting the automated system (I would at the least get the position indicator guages).<br /><br />Secondly I have a Sport SE foil on the cav plate. It has helped enormously - eg brought down planing speed by about 8 miles an hour. The boat still suffers from overloading on one side and wind sheer, which is predominantly why I am investing in tabs - It seemed to me that I should take the foil off - should I? Is it redundant? Could it upset handling with both? I have a mate with the old push pull hydraulic tabs and his boat (v-similar to mine) handled much better when he took off his Stingray.<br /><br />Thanks all.

 

[QC]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

I vote for Bennets, no auto, no indicators too if there are any budget concerns. You'll know where they are <br /><br />The Lenco's are quicker to install, but everybody else is hydraulic. That tells me something.<br /><br />Chuck the foil. The boat will be faster this way, more efficient. If you size the tabs right, you'll have no planing issues.

 

[scottoz]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

Thanks mate. Do I just follow the size chart on their web site? Or is there a secret tip?<br /><br />Cheers

 

[QC]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

I would follow their guidelines and go with the largest recommended. They also have different styles by application, wait around here and somebody else will chime in. I've only run them on boats that ran close to 60 MPH, but they were great at low speeds too. Indicators are cool, but you have to cut another set of holes in the transom I think, plus they cost money. I do wish that I had then sometimes, but again, it's not necessarily what a gage tells you it is what the boat's doing. Good luck.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

which are faster to react?

This is one of the Lenco's selling points but I prefer a tab that responds a little slower. The boat takes a few seconds to respond to an adjustments so what's the hurry?<br /><br />

Is it worth paying the extra money and getting the automated system

If you have the money I guess it looks cool on the dash but not worth the money IMHO. I must spend a whole 15 seconds a trip adjusting tabs. If I where to auotmate anything it would be the auto-retract feature. <br /><br />I'd throw the tab indicators under this umbrealla also. Tabs are the feel thing and becouse of that the indicators don't really do anything except tell you where you are or allow you to set your "base postion" each time. In my case I just count off 2 seconds and I'm at "base postion".

 

[rwidman]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

Remove the hydrofoil.<br /><br />And the "faster response" of the electric tabs is not an issue. Hydraulic work just fine.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

There is a good reason why the Bennett tabs react slower - Safety! Over correction at higher speeds can cause severe handling problems. Do not use the foil and the tabs, it will make it more difficult to control the boat. The foil may be the reason for the cruising speed handling issues now!

 

[Tabman]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

Scottoz,<br /><br />Take off the foil, as john said it can cause problems, like holding the bow down (too much lift) and we want you to be able to trim the prop (trim and tilt) for max thrust and use the Tabs to trim the boat's attitude. M120s alone will be a great choice for your boat.<br /><br />Quitecat and Dingbat have good points, and the boat is indeed the best indicator of what the Tabs are doing. That said, it is nice to have an indicator! Hold off on the Autotabs until you run the boat and see if you want it. It is really easy to install them afterwards. I love the Auto Tab Retractor on my boat and recommend it highly. <br /><br />Regarding the speed the Tabs move, all of the guys have good points. It is intresting to note that Lenco actuators stroke through less length (about 3/8") and this accounts for a fair amount of the difference full up to full down. What is important to know is we choose the speed the Tabs run for the best control. We can make a faster or slower pump. In fact a couple of boat builders do have us make slower pumps to prevent "over controling".<br /><br />I hope this helps. We have branches in East & West Aus. so let me know if can be of any help.<br /><br />Tom McGow<br />Bennett Marine

 

[bdirect]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

Boy what a place to jump in. These are just my experiances and thoughts about trim tabs. <br />I am a bit dissipointed in a couple of post here that "FEAR of loosing CONTROL and something bad happening" is inferred to lean you in a specific direction. Put a big pair of Bennett tabs on your boat and push that switch too much to long and you will be out of control as soon as that tab finishes the stroke. Hold that switch to long on an electric and you will be out of control as soon as the tab finishes the the stroke but you may feel it sooner with the speed of the tab and stop over correcting quicker.<br />IF speed was so dangerous we would all be trying to get our boats going slower not faster.<br />I have run both Lenco and Bennett. Both make a great product and both have great people working for them and both back up their products well.. I am now running Lenco electric trim tabs because I want a fast response and with practice using the electric (yes i went out and got used to how they reacted in different situations). I would not go back to hydraulic. Also mentioned above is refernce to the less travel of the tabs I have used both 3/8 is nothing if the tab is big enough. Do not put small tabs on a boat because of cost "BIGGER IS BETTER" I have been on big boats and small boats that the owner went short money on trim tabs and he should not have bothered putting them on.I run the biggest tabs i could fit on my 24 cuddy and when i want the bow down i can adjust it down and when i release the swithes it stays right where i stopped. Trimming the boat at slow speeds (trolling 2knts) or high speeds (40knts) is very simple for me and with a quick response I know if I made enough adjustment.I do not agree that a "delay" in response makes a trim tab better or safer. It is the experiance of the captain that makes the difference. i have over corrected with hydraulic (Oh yes radical turns) and electric. Everybody i know when being very very honest has a story about the time they pushed the trim tab but the boat didn't correct enough so they pushed it more and then 5 seconds later the boat was way over trimmed and they were freaking out trying to get back to where they were. <br />I would also suggest that whatever trim tabs you install get the indicator with it even if it cost more. I believe it is a safety issue when stopping and starting or backing up that you can quickly see what position the tabs are in.<br /><br />Also I would suggest after installing the tabs go out and prctice with them. Not just little adjustments but find out what happens when you mess it up because sooner or later you will and staying calm if the boat acts a bit radical is very important. Run it slow and over correct run it fast and over correct. The worst time to try and figure out how far is to far etc is when you are in sloppy waves and trying to figure out how to trim a boat.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

We do not make helm controlled trim tabs, so this is a personal opinion. Slower is better especialy on smaller faster boats. I agree that everyone should train themselvs in boat handling, including the trim tabs. However, over correcting on a fast (boat 35 MPH and up) can be a serious problem. A little patience and practice goes a long way in boat handling. Slower is better! If you know they are slow to react then a few seconds is not going to "change some vast eternal plan".

 

[Tab man]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

Bdirect has many very good points, particularly the ones about sizing. The M120s are a good choice for your boat.<br /><br />I do have to disagree with him regarding “delay” in responding. Hydraulic Trim Tabs start moving the instant you push the button and lock in place the instant your release it. No delay. Hydraulic systems such as the brakes on your car, steering on your boats and control surfaces on fighter air craft, and Trim Tab systems move the instant the pump turns over. Lenco Trim Tabs only move faster, but do not respond faster. It is interesting to note that the other major manufacture of electro-mechanical Trim Tabs came out with a system that runs at the same speed as ours.<br /><br />I do not know where the notion there is a delay in response came from but it is false.<br /><br />Tom McGow<br />Bennett Marine

 

[QC]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

I will add that I have had an issue with the "other major manufacturer" with their cylinders not fully retracting unless the boat is moving. Only issue I have ever had, but it was NOT Bennett. Bennett support has been excellent. I have no experience with Lenco support, but have installed a pair for a frined and he was very happy. Unless you want to spend $2K, I recommend the Bennets.<br /><br />Oh, and I agree with Tabman. Trust him. I have read many of his posts and he is always straight. There is no delay with hydraulic tabs.

 

[Tabman]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

Bdirect has very, very good points when it comes to learning about using Tabs. In fact good points when it comes to learing how to use anything on a boat! Go out and "play" with them. Learn how the boat reacts and soon their use, regardless of the type, will be second nature.<br /><br />It reminds me of learning to use radar, use it often during the day, in good weather when you can confirm what you are seeing. So when you go to use it in fog or at night for the first time you can correctly interpet what you see on the screen. <br /><br />Bdirect's focus is what every "prudent mariner" should learn!<br /><br />Tom McGow<br />Bennett Marine

 

[bdirect]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

Tabman<br />thank-you that is exactly my point. Hydraulic electric doesn't matter if you don't know how to use them or what they are capable of doing that could get someone hurt or keep someone from getting hurt. I would also like to say that if he puts M120s on his boat he will be very happy indeed. <br /><br />nautiJohn<br />I am not disagreeing with your quote above when in doubt slow is always better but I do think there is a different area of safety relative to what you said. If the captain of a boat is not expert enough to handle a fast boat and the "FAST ADJUSTMENTS" tilt trim etc neccessary to keep that boat safe he should not be on the water to begin with.

 

[scottoz]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

thanks very much all - much appreciated feedback. Just an interesting addendum - if you had $740-$840 australian to spend in a season on your boat and you had mecanical steering that was a bit stiff, but otherwise OK, would you spend the dough on hydraulic (Hydrive in my case - made in OZ - all stainless etc)or tabs? My boat suffers wind sheer and overloading on the sides (ie have to get people to move around a bit) but otherwise planes well. In a head sea when I trim the bow down the push pull steering gets very heavy - deep V heavy glass.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

Go with the smart-tabs and grease up the steering cable.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

love my bennett tabs. no indicator and not really needed in my opinion. it takes someone about 5 minutes to learn how to use them safely and effectively. very nice to be able to level out the boat in any condition and with any loading.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Bennett tabs WITH hydrofoil?

In a head sea when I trim the bow down the push pull steering gets very heavy

That's because you’re off trim. You're compromising your trim to get your bow down. <br /><br />Bad trim = hard steering no matter what kind of system you have. With tabs, I leave the boat at optimal trim and then move the bow up and down with the tabs. I get the best of both worlds.