Bilge Pump, auto or manual ???

strippier

Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
22
Hi,<br />I have recently bought a Bayliner Capri 1987, and told that it had a new bilge pump fitted recently.<br />My query is, when i flip the Bilge pump control switch on the dash, NOTHING happens,and i still see water in the Bilge. <br />Could the pumpm be an automatic pump connected directly to the battery ?? If so, for peace of mind, how can i check this and find out whether it is a manual or automatic pump ??<br /><br />Cheers<br />Steve
 

cuzner

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 14, 2004
Messages
771
Re: Bilge Pump, auto or manual ???

Hi Steve,how much water is still in the bilge? A bilge pump will not totaly drain your bilge out.You should be able to hear the pump working with the engine off, and engine cover removed.If you keep your boat in a slip I would make sure its auto + working properly.It should be located under your engine and if its auto there should be a float facing the stern,lift the float to see if its working.<br /><br /><br /> Jim
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: Bilge Pump, auto or manual ???

Personally, I would replace it with a duel pump. One that you could use the switch and that automatically pumps, too. Reason being, that if the float switch fails, it could be bad news. That's what it was set up for and I would keep it that way..cuzner <br />is right. It will not get all the water out of the bilge, but most of it, depending on the pump and float setting..
 

Solittle

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 28, 2002
Messages
7,518
Re: Bilge Pump, auto or manual ???

Many are wired so that the auto switch and the manual switch will operate a single pump. It has one ground wire and two hot wires - noe for the auto and one for the manual sw.
 

ThomWV

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Messages
701
Re: Bilge Pump, auto or manual ???

I think there is a bit of confusion here.<br /><br />There are two types of bilge pumps, automatic ones and non automatic ones. Automatic ones do not use a float switch and some of them can be operated manually and some can not. Most bilge pumps are not automatic and have to be connected to an outside switch, be it an automatic float switch, or a manual switch, but they must be connected to one or the other or both. This is far and away the most common type of pump.<br /><br />So its likely that you do have a non-automatic pump, in fact if you have a switch up on your dash that allows you to manually turn the pump on (if its working) then you most assuredly do not have an automatic pump, or if you do its wired inproperly.<br /><br />So, with all that said here is the deal on bilge pumps and how to wire the most common sort and the least common sort.<br /><br />The first things first. Fully automatic pumps have their own built in water senseing system. Every now and then (usually at about 1 second intervals I believe)a pulse of power is sent to a sensor and if there is wate there the pump kicks on. So with these pumps you have to supply a constant power supply, normally comming from the main battery switch, and there is no manual over ride switch up on the dash.<br /><br />The much more common setup is to have a bilge pump that simply runs whenever power is supplied to it. These kinds, which are what you will find in the vast majority of boats, are usually connected to an external float switch. Power is supplied to the float switch constantly and if there is water present the float lifts, making the switch connect, and the power is passed on to the bilge pump, which then pumps the water out of the boat. These pumps can also be powered by a manual switch of course. In that case power is supplied to a switch on the dash and the output side of the switch is connected to the pump. So if you reach down and hit the switch the pump should kick on. Very simple. Of course most pumps are connected to both a float switch and a manual switch up at the dash. That give you the best of both worlds.<br /><br />OK, how about reliability? Pumps last forever, float switches are horribly unreliable, manual switches fail, but not too often. The biggest problem with bilge pumps is usually the wireing itself. So, when a pump fails to work first check the wires for power; second, suspect the float switch; and last, look at the bilge pump itself.<br /><br />So, how to wire one? That part tends to confuse folks a bit, but its not so bad. The first rule is never to connect any device directly to your battery. I do not care who tells you that it is ever acceptable to connect devices directly to a battery, DO NOT DO IT! Batterys are to be connected to battery switches, engine grounds, or buss bars - nothing else. First look at the automatic side. Connect a suitable large wire to power the bilge pump to the input lug on your battery switch. This will be the same lug to which the positive cable from one of your batterys is connected. Within a foot of the switch put an inline fuse of appropriate amperage. Now, run that wire to the float switch and connect it to either of the two gray wires from the switch. Next, make a connection between the other wire on the float switch and the brown wire from the bilge pump (this is where you will also connect the manual wire I'll describe below). Finally, make a connection between the black wire from the bilge pump and your negative side buss bar. There, the automatic side is wired.<br /><br />If you want to have a manual over ride you will simple place a switch at the dash and power it from your fuse block or circuit breaker panel. Then you will connect a wire between it and the wire from the bilge pump's brown and the one of the float switch's gray wires that you had connected to it. This is the connection I mentined above when I was on the automatic hookup.<br /><br />For all of this use marine grade wire, buy the stuff made by Anchor and you won't have to worry about it. I like to solder all of my joints and then coat them with a sealer (usually 5200) and then I put a section of shrink fit over them. This treatment makes them last about as long as they possibly can, but they will still rot out on you after a few years (salt water) and have to be replaced from time to time.<br /><br />So, there, did that make any sense? If no I'll try to explain it better.<br /><br />Thom
 

18rabbit

Captain
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: Bilge Pump, auto or manual ???

Just a reminder, do not solder conductors (wires) anywhere on your boat. Neither the ABYC nor the USCG allows it because it is thought to be unsafe. If you think otherwise, you are free to argue with them.<br /><br />Always use mechanical fasteners. There are lots of good ones available. Ancor makes excellent crimp style butt connectors. Blue Sea Systems, Newmar, and a bunch of others all sell a European style of nylon-insulated connector that I like. Uses a screw on each connector…fast, clean, secure and easy to alter if you need to. Comes in a strip of 12 connectors that you easily cut into the smaller divisions you need.<br /><br />Newmar’s strips are AWG 14 or 16 specific. Blue Sea Sys is AWG 8-14.<br /><br /> http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Product_Id=30195&d_Id=7465&l1=7465&l2= <br /><br /> http://www.newmarpower.com/terminalstripsbusbars/termstrpbusbar.html#constrip
 

strippier

Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
22
Re: Bilge Pump, auto or manual ???

Cheers guys,<br />had a look last night, NO separate float on side of bilge pump. COuld even get the bilge pump apart, seems to be stuck somehow in the boat pit, under my stern.<br />When i did turn the key on and flip the switch for t bige pump, it did swerl the water slightly.<br />The pump looks new, so might have to re-visit t problem this wkend, there still seems too much water in the bilge area for my liking :+(
 

John_S

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Messages
4,269
Re: Bilge Pump, auto or manual ???

If the water level is an inch or more up the side of the pump, it should be able to pump some water out. Did you look at the output of the hose and see if water was discharging into the lake? <br /><br />In my Bayliner the pump is mounted to a small square of epoxied plywood. There are some plastic fingers that hold the pump to the base. Depressing them, you should be able to pull the pump out. The base is screwed into the plywood. There is usually some type of screen that covers the inlet of the pump. Make sure it isn't plugged with debrie.
 

lljhoyer

Cadet
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
27
Re: Bilge Pump, auto or manual ???

Wouldn't hurt to take the pump apart to make sure nothing is impacting the impeller. My pump last week didn't seem to be pumping the quantity of water it should have been, given the amount in the bilge. When I took it apart the was some debris in the impeller-cleaned it out and now pumps great!
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
16,319
Re: Bilge Pump, auto or manual ???

Just a reminder, do not solder conductors (wires) anywhere on your boat. Neither the ABYC nor the USCG allows it because it is thought to be unsafe.
Not entirely correct. <br /><br />E-9.17.12.8 Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.<br />EXCEPTION: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor.<br /><br />NOTE: When a stranded conductor is soldered, the soldered portion of the conductor becomes a solid strand conductor and flexing can cause the conductor to break at the end of the solder joint unless adequate additional support is provided.
 
Top