Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

[IslanderVT]

We have a 21' Seebold I/O sport boat that I'm currently doing a partial restoration on (gas tank, stringers, bulkheads, deck, etc).

This boat is low freeboard with little safety margin in a swamping situation (ie hose burst, sudden leak, etc). Also I'm moving into a family boating mode...most of the time we've had it has just been my wife and I...now we have 2 young kids...so I'm thinking more about safety and redundancy.

Has a 25 year old bilge pump with manual switch which I'm planning to replace.

I'm also planning a second redundant pump for emergency use.

I don't want to replace rotted wood again...so I never want water to accumulate in this boat...ever.

So the system I'm planning will include:

1) 800 GPH main pump with a liquid switch at the low point of the bilge wired to permanent power and using the current 3/4" hose. Seems like this should not have an OFF switch so it will always pump water from the bilge. This would cover normal water sources...rain, wet swimmers, spray, etc.

2) 1000 GPH emergency pump with a manual switch and using a new 1 1/8" hose and discharge port out the opposite side of the boat. This would only be needed for a catastrophic event (hose burst, hull breach, water over stern).

3) Audible bilge alarm with liquid switch mounted at say 4" level. This would indicate the main pump has failed or is being overrun, such as might happen with a main water line burst. Seen enough cases of this happening and the driver only realizing it after seeing water come up inside the boat that it needs to have a countermeasure.

All 3 mounted on a 1/4" lexan plate (I have some already) with a matching mount plate that is glued to the hull at the bottom of the bilge...attached with wing nuts and with wires and hoses strung such that it comes out as one piece.

Questions:

Anyone have experience with this type of liquid switch? My pumps will be under the engine which is tough to reach with the interior installed, so no moving parts sounds appealing. I've seen some posts about the float type switches failing or getting jammed.

Mayfair Ultima Bilge Switch - Johnson Pump 36303 - iboats
Mayfair High Water Bilge Alert - Johnson Pump 72303 - iboats

Is there any reason to be able to turn off a bilge pump with level switch? I can't think of any except for cleaning/flushing the bilge, in which case I think I'd still want the pump going.

How should I glue down the permanent lexan plate to a freshened polyester fiberglass surface...5200? Peanut Butter?

Any other advice before I start buying parts? Planning for Rule pumps, and perhaps the switches above.

Thanks!

 

[Pez Vela]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

I believe a Rule 1500 GPH bilge pump to be widely accepted as the preferrable size for a boat the size of yours. The 1 1/8" hose makes it most efficient, and for that reason alone, it should be your primary pump. If you have the space to mount it, that would be my choice. It should have a float switch, which is wired directly to the battery, and it should have a manual switch (on-off) at the helm, so you can turn the pump on if you want to, or as a back up method of turning it on case the float switch isn't working. That helm switch should have either a light or an audible alarm to alert you to activation by the float switch.

Beyond that, your plans for redundancy and other alarms are fine, so long as you don't get everything so confused that neither you nor anyone else can figure out what's going on. Congratulations on your new family.

 

[Grandad]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

I'm also planning a second redundant pump for emergency use.

Anyone have experience with this type of liquid switch? My pumps will be under the engine which is tough to reach with the interior installed, so no moving parts sounds appealing. I've seen some posts about the float type switches failing or getting jammed.

Is there any reason to be able to turn off a bilge pump with level switch? I can't think of any except for cleaning/flushing the bilge, in which case I think I'd still want the pump going.

Any other advice before I start buying parts?

Any float can be compromised if debris traps water out or traps water within the mechanism. I have no experience with this type of liquid switch, but if you're really serious about having control in an emergency, you must not only have a switch that can bypass the float and start the pump, but you should also have a switch that will kill the pump if it continues to run for no reason (think battery drain, if nothing else). Yes, you could pull the fuse to stop a runaway pump, but that leaves it inoperative until you find the fuse again.

It's good to have a backup pump as you have planned, but do you have a plan for pumping the bilge if your battery is dead? As you've noted, getting access to the bilge isn't easy, so even trying to bail with a bucket can be frustrating. I carry a bicycle pump style manual pump that reaches beneath the engine. Simple, but effective. - Grandad

 

[IslanderVT]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

I believe a Rule 1500 GPH bilge pump to be widely accepted as the preferrable size for a boat the size of yours. The 1 1/8" hose makes it most efficient, and for that reason alone, it should be your primary pump.

I was thinking that the 1 1/8" hose and larger pump would be better for the primary also, until I saw an article that raised a good point. It suggested using a smaller pump as the primary if it has an automatic switch because it will last longer before running the battery down. The thought was that for normal water sources (rain, spray, a slow leak), a small pump should be more than adequate. The Rule 1500 draws 4.8amps, and the 800 draws 2.8amps, so I can see the logic. However I imagine the actual power consumed correlates to how much water is moved so maybe the nameplate current draw is irrelevant....and all other things being equal the larger hose should be better because of lower friction loss.

Thanks also for the insight on switching and indicator lights...that all makes good sense. Hoping that these solid-state switches would not have the stuck-switch problem...but that's probably wishful thinking.

For simplicity, I plan to leave the alarm entirely separate. Maybe the way to keep it simple is to wire both pumps to the helm switch so switching it on gives maximum pumping always. Then maybe a manual switch (or some other more fail safe disconnect) in the engine room to cut off power to the main pump in case of runaway, since this would not likely be an emergency situation. Looks like I need a schematic...

Thanks for the congrats on the family...sure will be fun to take them out, especially knowing there's some degree of a backup plan.

 

[IslanderVT]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

It's good to have a backup pump as you have planned, but do you have a plan for pumping the bilge if your battery is dead? As you've noted, getting access to the bilge isn't easy, so even trying to bail with a bucket can be frustrating. I carry a bicycle pump style manual pump that reaches beneath the engine. Simple, but effective. - Grandad

Good point...should probably pick up one of those gray bailer pumps as a backup to the backups. Handy to soak an unruly kid when needed too!

Seems to me one can't be too safe when it comes to water getting inside a boat. Have seen enough close calls to want multiple layers between us and a life-threatening situation.

Just picked up one of these:
http://www.iboats.com/Beckson-Marin...15273408--session_id.577375044--view_id.66386

 

[trendsetter240]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

1000gph is not enough for an emergency situation. 1500 gph minimum.

I recommend two of the Johnson 1600 GPH pumps. One on a float switch and one with a manual switch.

It's perfectly fine to have one of these pumps handle incidental water from rain etc. It moves the water out faster so power used is comparable to a smaller pump that runs longer to move the same water.

These johnson pumps have been very reliable in my experience. I know many people that depend on them.

Johnson Pump L1600 Manual Bilge Pump 1550 GPH 1-1/8" Port 12v 16004-00 - iboats

 

[IslanderVT]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

Are any bilge pumps Made in USA? Just got a manual one that is!

 

[IslanderVT]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

I recommend two of the Johnson 1600 GPH pumps.

These johnson pumps have been very reliable in my experience. I know many people that depend on them.

Johnson Pump L1600 Manual Bilge Pump 1550 GPH 1-1/8" Port 12v 16004-00 - iboats

Thanks...will add that to my list of options. Do you know country of origin?

 

[trendsetter240]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

Thanks...will add that to my list of options. Do you know country of origin?

Johnson pumps are manufactured in Chicago.

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

A minimum of 2 pumps- a minimum of 1500 gallons each. One close to the stern on auto switch and another a few feet forward. Both can be on auto switches but each should be on a separate battery. My bilge pumps can only be tested by putting water in as it is always dry. It is a 21' and I have 3 as the 1200 that came with the boat was left and two Rule pumps installed-- one 2000 gph and a 4000 gph cost just under $300 for both.

 

[kjsAZ]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

Unfortunately most of the pumps meanwhile come from China even if the importer is a US company.

Had very good experience with Whale SuperSub Smart pumps (made in Europe).

 

[Pez Vela]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

... until I saw an article that raised a good point ... a smaller pump as the primary ... because it will last longer before running the battery down.

That's ridiculous. In the case of water intrusion, you want it out and you want it out now. If you are as prudent with your battery as you plan on being with your bilge pumps, you will never leave the dock without a good battery that is well maintained. By experience, I can tell you that a 1500 GPH bilge pump will blow a lot of water out very quickly, and because the time involved is short, battery drain is the last thing on your mind. Don't get too cute with all this, it's not that difficult to install a simple, but very competent system.

 

[Grandad]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

Any float can be compromised if debris traps water out or traps water within the mechanism. I have no experience with this type of liquid switch, but if you're really serious about having control in an emergency, you must not only have a switch that can bypass the float and start the pump, but you should also have a switch that will kill the pump if it continues to run for no reason (think battery drain, if nothing else). Yes, you could pull the fuse to stop a runaway pump, but that leaves it inoperative until you find the fuse again. - Grandad

A case in point. - Grandad
http://forums.iboats.com/boat-topic...cs/rule-bilge-pumpm-short-cycling-613813.html

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Bilge Pump Upgrade Questions

Bilge Pumps in recreational boats are NOT Emergency Damage Control pumps!
The are for controlling incidental water. Rain, Splash, Spray, Drips.
They will Not keep up with a missing Bilge plug or a torn bellows or Waves coming over the gunnels, and definitely NOT a hull breach.
A 1500 gph rated pump will move 1000gph if you are lucky. That is only ~15 gal per minute, You can manually bail that fast.

A bigger bilge pump is always better than a smaller one, but don't let it give you a a false sense of security.