Black Max 150 has me baffeled

kendo

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May 9, 2007
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26
Hey out there, I could really use some help. 2 years ago I bought an 18 ft. Pro Craft bass boat with a 150 Merc. Black Max, 1986. Went for a test ride with the seller and was impressed at the speed and performance of this boat. That was the last good ride I had. Soon after that problems began. While driving the boat the motor would shut off and I would have to wait to restart. Replaced all the fuel lines and primer bulb with negative results. Took it to the best mechanic in the area and he stated that crank seals were bad and proceeded to tear it apart and replace them. This did not help and he charged me half of what he quoated because he felt bad. $450.00. I took it to another mechanic who rebuilt the carbs and replaced one of the switch boxes for another $500.00. It still ran like Sh--t. Couldn't get up on plane tach read abot 3000. Bought a Seloc book and attacked it myself. Replaced another switch box and put on a new stator after reading some of the reports on this website, also rebuilt the fuel pump. took a test spin today, got on plane, tach climbed slow to 4000 and I hit 29mph. OOOOOHHHHH. Whats left, trigger assembly, timing, junk yard???????
 
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studlymandingo

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Mar 22, 2006
Messages
2,716
Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

Has anyone tested the compression yet? How is the motor set up? Is it bolted directly to the transom, or is it on a jack plate?

Is the cavitation plate level with the keel or is it below it?

Is there anything different about the setup since purchase? Different prop maybe?

Was the boat kept indoors and now outdoors?​
 

Windykid

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Apr 17, 2007
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Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

Agree, you need a compression test.
 

Speedy150

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May 4, 2007
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Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

I am having similar problems with my boat as well. I have a 1986 Bass Tracker with a 150 Black Max XR2 having the same issues. There has been no change as far as prop, leveling, nothing. So our frustrations are shared. If you finally get it figured out please let me know what corrected the problem and I will do the same.
 

kendo

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
26
Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

Has anyone tested the compression yet? How is the motor set up? Is it bolted directly to the transom, or is it on a jack plate?

Is the cavitation plate level with the keel or is it below it?

Is there anything different about the setup since purchase? Different prop maybe?

Was the boat kept indoors and now outdoors?​

Studlyman, Sorry I forgot to mention the compression which was 125 or better on all cylinders. Engine and boat have not been altered since purchase. Engine is bolted to the boat and prop is the same. Read some interesting things on rectifiers, purchased one today, will try it over the weekend. $40.00 would be a cheap fix, worth a try. Tach has been acting up which gets its signal at the rectifier from the stator HMMMM. I'm not flush with the coins, thats why I have a 1986 rig. Thanks, Kendo
 

kendo

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
26
Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

I am having similar problems with my boat as well. I have a 1986 Bass Tracker with a 150 Black Max XR2 having the same issues. There has been no change as far as prop, leveling, nothing. So our frustrations are shared. If you finally get it figured out please let me know what corrected the problem and I will do the same.

Speedy 150, I think I'm getting close, I'll be glad to keep you posted. Thanks, Kendo
 

Speedy150

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Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

I hope you are correct about the rectifier for both our sakes. A $40 fix would be excellent!!!!
 

Texasmark

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Dec 20, 2005
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14,778
Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

If your BM is like the son's '95 you have 2-20 amp rectifier modules. Each has a grey wire for tach drive. Erratic tach operation (if not the tach) is said to indicate a regulator module on the way out. You can switch your tach wire to the other module to troubleshoot.

Buttttttt. This module should have nothing to do with your engine running unless it is corrupting the battery voltage that your ignition is running off.

Your ignition has a separate trigger source (from the regulators' stator inputs).

One way to help determine the source (ign or fuel) would be to remove the cowl and carb intake cover and take a can of Deep Creep and have someone firewall it. When the engine is doing all that it can, spray some into the carb inlets...try to get all of them simultaneously, and if she picks up speed you have fuel delivery problems. Otherwise you have an ignition problem.

If fuel delivery, don't overlook tank venting, clogged tank screen, engine filter, fuel pump and finally carbs.

Mark
 

kendo

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May 9, 2007
Messages
26
Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

If your BM is like the son's '95 you have 2-20 amp rectifier modules. Each has a grey wire for tach drive. Erratic tach operation (if not the tach) is said to indicate a regulator module on the way out. You can switch your tach wire to the other module to troubleshoot.

Buttttttt. This module should have nothing to do with your engine running unless it is corrupting the battery voltage that your ignition is running off.

Your ignition has a separate trigger source (from the regulators' stator inputs).

One way to help determine the source (ign or fuel) would be to remove the cowl and carb intake cover and take a can of Deep Creep and have someone firewall it. When the engine is doing all that it can, spray some into the carb inlets...try to get all of them simultaneously, and if she picks up speed you have fuel delivery problems. Otherwise you have an ignition problem.

If fuel delivery, don't overlook tank venting, clogged tank screen, engine filter, fuel pump and finally carbs.

Mark
Mark, Thinking that it might be a tank problem I took a regular merc. six gallon tank with premix and ran the boat with no improvement. One time during a W.O.T. run the engine seemed to kick in and she jumped from a sluggish 25mph 2900 rpm to 5000rpm and 50 mph. It ran like this for about 1 min. than stopped dead almost swamping the boat with the backwash. After about 2 min. I could refire the engine and we were back to 25mph again. Hasn't run right since. Thanks again Kendo.
 

jimmbo

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
13,638
Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

Check all the wires in the ignition system for signs of deterioration and grounding or pinching. Trigger might also be the culprit. Is it firing on all cylinders? Use an inductive timing light and while under load check each plug wire to see if sparking.
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
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Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,778
Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

That sounds like ignition. Fuel wouldn't respond that quickly in my opinion. Looks like the ign suggestions are the way to go.........be careful.

Mark
 

kendo

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May 9, 2007
Messages
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Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

That sounds like ignition. Fuel wouldn't respond that quickly in my opinion. Looks like the ign suggestions are the way to go.........be careful.

Mark

Mark and others, Thanks for all the good suggestions, I'll be making a couple of test runs this week when I can line up a good helper. Have to wait for the right conditions to be doing any W.O.T. timing light induction testing, no seat belts back there, just a flat casting platform. Kendo.
 

j_martin

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Sep 22, 2006
Messages
7,474
Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

I had all this crap go on in my XR4 150. Put a fuel pressure gauge on and shot bugs till I got it fixed. Turned out the biggest culprit was that damned Murkery bayonet connector, which now lives happily in the chit can, and was replaced by a piece of hose.

Goes like a bat out of hell now.

One thing I noticed, and replaced just for preventative reasons, is that the trigger on this thing likes to wear out the wires. Also lead dress on the trigger is critical. The harness can snag on all the other wires in the neighborhood and prevent the timing from advancing like it should. Mine was hanging at 'bout 18* till I cleaned it up. While the flywheel is off, take a real close look at the inside magnets. If you see any cracks, chit can the flywheel.

hope it helps

John
 

Speedy150

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May 4, 2007
Messages
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Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

Martin, while have a reasonable amount of experience with engines in cars and sport bikes I must say that I am fairly new to this whole outboard engine stuff. It sounds like you have some good information in your post but if you would please elaborate more on what you are talking about so that I may have a better idea on what I need to do and look for it would be greatly appreciated as I am having similar problems with my 1986 XR2 150.
 

bigshrimpin

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Jan 22, 2003
Messages
69
Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

find the idle stabilizer/spark advance module and disconnect it.
 

j_martin

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Sep 22, 2006
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Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

OK, here we go.
The throttle lever moves the timing and the butterfly throttle valves on the carbs in sync. Usually, on a merc, you start out at idle with the carbs fully closed, and the timing at the idle setting for the motor, (somewhere ATDC, 11* on mine.)

As you advance the throttle, it advances the timing. At some specified time (immediately on mine) a cam starts to open the carburetor valves and add fuel and air. About half way open on the carbs, the timing hits the maximum, (23* BTDC on mine). The timing change is accomplished by a linkage that rotates the trigger assembly under the flywheel. When that rotates, the wires connected to it, (7 on a v6) move with it. They can rub, wear, bind up, and otherwise either get damaged, or restrict the rotation of the trigger. I've seen folks replace a voltage reagulator and strap down the wiring with tie wraps and prevent timing from advancing past 10* or so. The freedom of that gang of wires is critical. Mine is carefully laid on top of all other wires and hoses on the top and starboard sides of the engine, and the first strap that holds it is half way down the switchboxes.

The early V6's had a high performance (sort of) bayonet fuel connector on them. When I got mine, it had been replaced with an aftermarket connector, and it just wouldn't flow enough fuel at WOT to keep up with the pump. I could feel it, and I put on a pressure gauge and could document it. The final fix turned out to be to just remove it and run the hose directly to the oil mixer. Along these lines, clean filters, proper sized hoses (Just use Mercury hose) good primer bulb (again mercury or OMC only, no aftermarket) are critical.

The other item is if you seem to have some sort of erratic firing, or unexplained damage to the power head, it's worth while to set up a dial indicator or depth gauge (I use a $25 digital caliper from Menards, or little machine shop tie wrapped to a fitting I made by welding a tab of steel to a gutted out spark plug) to set the timing mark for all the cylinders. Merc specs have you set a mark on the flywheel (.462" if my memory is correct). If you do that, then move the flywheel to WOT timing, you'll get another reading on the dial indicator. (.120, or.150, I can't remember) If you then move the dial indicator to each hole in turn, go past TDC to zero it, then move the flywheel to the WOT measurement, and mark it on the flywheel, you'll have a timing mark for each cylinder. Then go through all the cylinders and be sure it's reasonable close to on for each one, and not jumping around. If there's a problem, in order of probability, it could be the trigger, the internal magnets on the flywheel, or the switchbox in question.

When you do any of these things, remove any "advance" modules connected to the switch boxes. In a properly tuned engine, these modules are superfluous anyway. Mine eventually found a home in the chit can.

So, in summary, make sure all the fuel parts are good, and kosher. Check out the freedom of movement of all the linkages. Go through a formal link and sync of timing and carburation. Then to trouble shoot, do the all cylinders timing check and go from there.

hope it helps
John

ps, here's how the 50 MPH bote I bought goes now.
 

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kendo

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May 9, 2007
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Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

John, It's 4:00AM and I can't sleep, I have the outboard motor blues and my mind is going a mile a minute. You have good imformation and I have suspected the trigger assembly in the past after watching the wires move when I advanced the spark by hand. When I put the stator on I made sure the wires for the trigger had room to move in the loom. The outer housing of the wire is pulled back from where they enter the trigger assembly, I don't like that set up. I will pop the flywheel tomarrow and check the flywheel magnets and continuity of the trigger assembly. I will also hook the fuel line direct to rule out fuel starvation. As I said in the past there was the time when the motor jumped from 3000 rpm to 5000 ran a short while than stopped. Some type of short circuitI think. Is there any type of rev. limiter on these motor that could be acting up? This engine has what they call an idle stabilizer, no high speed black box. My tach is still acting up and when it does work it is sluggish. I also notice that when I use the tilt or trim the tach drops right down to nothing, some type of electrical draw. And nice picture of the boat at speed. Thanks again, Kendo from Wi.
 

Texasmark

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Dec 20, 2005
Messages
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Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

Tach problems on that engine could signal a rectifier module problem. Look at the rear center of the powerhead. Is there a plate of approx 5"x7" (guesstimate) staring at you with a couple of solenoids (look like starting solenoids but they are power trim) and other stuff there? If so continue:

Look under the plate (down from the top will work). Do you see a potted module with reds, yellows, black (I think) and 1 grey wires coming from it? Is there a second module beneath it identical to it?

If you have what I described you have a 40 amp rectifier regulator which is made up of 2 ea 20 amp modules. Remove your grey tach wire from where it is and connect to the other grey wire on the other module.

Did this help your tach readings? If not Merc has tach's for $88.

Since your trim modules are right there at the rect/regl modules, you may not have a wiring problem, but a module problem. If the tach cleared up the module it was plugged into is probably defective.

Check it out.

Mark
 

j_martin

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Sep 22, 2006
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7,474
Re: Black Max 150 has me baffeled

Kendo,
Sorry for the sleep loss. Welcome to the club.

I need to know the serial number of your motor. The exact electrical system and the tachometer problem, in combination, could be significant in the diagnosis. You could have one of about 3 different setups on it, and the parts diagram will sort it out. If you could photograph the starboard side of the motor, and the back with the shells off, that would also help. I would hazard a guess that you have a 16 amp rectifier system and the rectifier is bad, or failing. What is the condition of the battery, and does it charge?

The idle stabilizer module directly crowbars the bias on the switchboxes, and could cause trouble. It also samples a spark signal, and could kill that one cylinder if it(the module) is defective. If you notice, mercury doesn't sell those modules any more. That's probably because they are functionally somewhere between unnecessary and harmfull. If you are in good tune, your idle will be stable. If it isn't, it is good early indication impending trouble. I would definitely try running without it. If it won't idle without it, you entire link and sync, or some basic function, like reed sealing, is wrong.

On the fuel issue, if you have that little white thumb sized filter, it plugs real easily, and is so small it only has to have a little restriction to cause real trouble. By far the easiest way to troubleshoot the fuel system is to take the plug out of the bottom carb that isn't connected, put a barb adapter in the hole, and run a hose to a cheep 10 or 15psi gauge in your lap. Only temporary, because that setup is inherently hazardous. You can use cheap vinyl hose from the hardware store. If you have a fuel issue, the pressure will drop real low when it occurs. That engine will run on less than 1 lb of pressure at mid speeds, and about 2.5 lbs at WOT. I consider putting a kit in the fuel pump a maintenance item along with spark plugs. (Annual here in the north.)

I rattle on to the next thing that comes to my feeble mind. The "break" in the wrapping on the trigger harness is probably normal. When you ohm the trigger, do it with clip on leads, and move the harness around a little while you do it. At 20 years old, it could very well be getting frayed a bit.

Hope it helps
John
 
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