blown head gasket. pictures.

[sti1471]

I did a compression test and the results indicated a blown head gasket. I removed the head and sure enough the seal between 2 and 3 was blown away. I am going to the marine store to get a new gasket. However while I had everything torn apart I wanted to make sure everything else was good. I am not 100% sure what I am looming for but the piston walls actually look mirror shine. From the feel there are no gouged spots. I took lots of pictures but I think I cant upload them from my phone.

So a few questions.
1- what is the best tool for removing the gunk, and other stuff that cant be removed with liquids? Is there a tool I can put in a power drill, or a certajn type of sand paper I can use?

2- the boat ran rich for a while so everything has lots of carbon build up. What can I use to such as the valves and pistons. What can I use to get all the carbon off of the surfaces?

3- the gasket that was on the block looks like it is made of tin or something. Are there different types of material they are made out of and if so are certain materials better than others?

thanks all.

 

[agallant80]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

I replaced a few head gaskets in cars. To get the gunk off of the head and block I used this plastic buffing thing that went on a drill. You may have to use a scotch bright and acitone. I would not use anyting that could scratch the surface.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

Do NOT use sandpaper, the grit can come off and get down between the piston and the cylinder wall. A blunt putty knife might be of some use.

 

[sti1471]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

Thanks everyone.

I went to lowes and got a wire brush that goes into a drill. It is gold wires and the "fine" type. It is designed for surface prep.

I started by removing a bunch of stuff with a razor blade. The cleaned the surface with carb cleaner. Stuffed paper towels in the cylinders for protections. I then used the wire brush on the surfaces. The surfaces look good. However there is what looks like dark "gasket, lines" on the surface that feels like they are not there, almost like the old gasket lines are tattooed on the block surface. Is that normal or do I need to clean until those are removed?

Also on the bridge between cylinder 2 and 3 right where the gasket was broken, there looks like there is some carbon built up there but I cant get it off. It looks almost carbon that has bonded with the metal. When I take the wire brush to it, the carbon has a shine like the rest of the metal. But when I take the razor blade to it, I can scrape it off tiny bit at a time. The razor scraping it creates a very fine "black dust" on the block.

I am guessing that when the gasket broke, the carbon started to build up and it became almost part of the metal or something.

anyone seen this before and have an6 good ways of removing it?

Also does anyone have a good way of checking the surface with a feeler gauge without a "flat bar"? Will the side of a yard stick work for this?

 

[stonyloam]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

If you are feeling adventurous you could try draw filing the top of the block. Draw filing is where you take a single cut flat file and lay it flat on the top of the block at right angle to the block one hand on the handle and one hand on the tip and draw it back and forth toward and away from you (rather than pushing it from one end). That should hit the high spots like the carbon buildup you are encountering. Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQYSroXM0Go I have used the technique on some flat surfaces. If you try it go slow and be careful.

 

[Bondo]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

If you are feeling adventurous you could try draw filing the top of the block. Draw filing is where you take a single cut flat file and lay it flat on the top of the block at right angle to the block one hand on the handle and one hand on the tip and draw it back and forth toward and away from you (rather than pushing it from one end). That should hit the high spots like the carbon buildup you are encountering. Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQYSroXM0Go I have used the technique on some flat surfaces. If you try it go slow and be careful.

Ayuh,... We think alota alike Terry,....

I was gonna mention that a Flat File can yield good results, with Alota Patience,...

sti, what's the Head's surface look like,..??

If the tattoos can't be felt, at All,... so be it,...Flat, 'n Smooth is the key,...

 

[sti1471]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

I will give the file a try. I will also post pictures tonight when I have my laptop.

 

[sti1471]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

OK so I got home last night and was able to modify the pictures to be able to upload them.

So I got a picture of the "carbon build up" between cylinders 2 and 3. I noticed that there looks as there is a crack in the block there. However when looking at the side of the cylinder wall, the crack is only on the surface where you can see it. So I am thinking that might just a be a crack in the "carbon" build up and not the actual metal. This picture is after I used the razor blade, and wire brush scraping as much of it away as I could. as I touch it and run it with my fingernail, it feel perfectly smooth.


In this picture, you can see the "tattooed lines" I am talking about on the surface. Those lines cannot be felt, but they are still there. as I said, almost like they are tattooed into the metal. So I think I am not going to worry about them.


As stated before, the cylinder walls look almost like they are mirror finish. when I rub the cylinder walls, I do not feel any pitting, or scrape lines as all. Other that feeling them, I am not sure what to look for to obtain their condition. The engine was ran rich for some time, so the pistons have a bit of black carbon on them that I should clean off. not sure if surface carbon is harmful enough to put the effort into cleaning the tops of the pistons as to me this seems "cosmetic".


and this is a picture of cylinder #4. Again lots of carbon. I am not sure what the "heart" shape is on the cylinder top but it is smooth, not warped, so I do not think it is a concern.




Thoughts, everything look good? I am hoping to get to bolt the head back on after work tonight.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

Okay...so here are my "thoughts".
I blew the head gasket on my engine(inline 6) recently so I just went through these same questions.
The cylinders were not perfect...but then again it is an older motor.
I don't see anything that stands out enough to justify more invasive exploration.
Clean up the surface, run a tap through the threads and fire it up!

I found that after I heated and cooled the engine I needed to re-torque the head bolts also...I loosely sealed the valve cover after the first start so as not to torque down the new gasket until I was done with the final tightening.

 

[RCAnderson]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

The 'crack' between #2 and #3 is most likely the reason your head gasket blew. It looks like the combustion gasses are leaking through under the head gasket. If you put it back together like this, I think you will blow another head gasket in no time. If it is not a crack, and not too deep, you may get away with having a machine shop deck the block. This will require more disassembly, however.

 

[Bondo]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

The 'crack' between #2 and #3 is most likely the reason your head gasket blew. It looks like the combustion gasses are leaking through under the head gasket. If you put it back together like this, I think you will blow another head gasket in no time. If it is not a crack, and not too deep, you may get away with having a machine shop deck the block. This will require more disassembly, however.

Ayuh,.... I gotta agree,.... Another motor is Needed,......

I don't think it could be decked enough to clean it up either,...

 

[stonyloam]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

There may be a crack there, but it looks like there has been some erosion of the deck surface (caused by hot gasses blowing from one cylinder to the other) between the two cylinders. Might be time to have a good mechanic take a look at it.

 

[sti1471]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

Is there a way to see if this is the case? Can I lower cylinders 2 and 3 and see the crack from there?

If it is the type of crack in which you are referring to, will the crack run down the sides of cylinder(s) 2 and or 3 and be visible once I crank the engine over to lower the pistons?

What is "deck" the surface?

 

[Bondo]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

Is there a way to see if this is the case? Can I lower cylinders 2 and 3 and see the crack from there?

If it is the type of crack in which you are referring to, will the crack run down the sides of cylinder(s) 2 and or 3 and be visible once I crank the engine over to lower the pistons?

What is "deck" the surface?

Ayuh,... The Top of the Block, where the head gasket sets,... it's machined off, Flat again,...

You need a Machinist, or another motor,....

 

[sti1471]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

Ever since I bought the boat, it has had a rough idle. I am assuming that the previous owner blew the head gasket, the boat ran like it did when I got it and sold it thinking there was massive damage. So I assume the head gasket has been blown since I have owned it. I am wondering if it warped with the trailer idling I have done with it while trying to get it tuned.

I took a side picture of the crack. the flash is making the surface glare making it hard to determine depth. However editing the lighting properties of the image, it highlights the crack with shadow flare.

Looking at the crack from the side, I can see the cracks depth as it appears to be just surface depth.


Just so I understand this, are you saying the hot gasses are moving from cylinder 2 to cylinder 3 under the gasket through that crack (kind of like a tunnel) and will blow out the new gasket, or are you saying the gasses are coming from the block and coming out of the crack (like a volcano) blowing the out the new gasket?


If it is just surface depth, can it be sanded flat and have the crack leveled with an epoxy of some kind?

 

[Bondo]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

Ever since I bought the boat, it has had a rough idle. I am assuming that the previous owner blew the head gasket, the boat ran like it did when I got it and sold it thinking there was massive damage. So I assume the head gasket has been blown since I have owned it. I am wondering if it warped with the trailer idling I have done with it while trying to get it tuned.

I took a side picture of the crack. the flash is making the surface glare making it hard to determine depth. However editing the lighting properties of the image, it highlights the crack with shadow flare.

Looking at the crack from the side, I can see the cracks depth as it appears to be just surface depth.
View attachment 203720

Just so I understand this, are you saying the hot gasses are moving from cylinder 2 to cylinder 3 under the gasket through that crack (kind of like a tunnel) and will blow out the new gasket, or are you saying the gasses are coming from the block and coming out of the crack (like a volcano) blowing the out the new gasket?


If it is just surface depth, can it be sanded flat and have the crack leveled with an epoxy of some kind?

Ayuh,.... That's a Yes, the cylinders are still firin',...

'n That's a No, No way,...

 

[sti1471]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

if the goal would be to stop the gasses from traveling through that "tunnel", then what would be the issue with filling the crack with epoxy if I were able to get it flat after the fill? would a 3700 psi epoxy not hold, or would there be some other reason this would not work?

If I need a new block, what cars or engines in the junk yard would have a GM 3.0l block that is a direct replacement block or a good block to use? I know someone around town that is selling a 307 out of his nova, would this be a good replacement?

 

[RCAnderson]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

Bond-o is right, that valley (not a crack) is too deep to be machined out. You want to start looking for either a short or longblock, or donor motor.
Do not try to fill it with something, the combustion pressure is too high. In a little while your filler will come out and end up in one of the combustion chambers, and your head gasket will blow again.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

The crack is probably a lot deeper than it looks, it is just that you can not see it. Machine shops use a technique called magnafluxing to detect cracks that are not visible to the naked eye.

 

[sti1471]

Re: blown head gasket. pictures.

OK.

So what type of engine makes a good replacement engine? From my understanding, this is a GM engine with marine parts added on. So what engine types, or vehicles should I look for in a junk yard that would have this same type of engine block, or one that is almost a direct fit??