Boat rescuing??

[martyh]

Hey guys,

I was hoping for some advice, information and opinions on a boat I am looking at.

I am looking at a 1979 Sea Ray 24? with a flybridge. The owner has had it since the early 80?s and spent the majority of there weekends fishing the waters in Alaska. They relocated to Washington in the mid 90?s and the boat has sat since.

The paint is badly oxidized and in need of some serious cleaning. It was powered by twin 140 Mercruisers. One engine is partially disassembled and I am sure water has gotten inside, and the other one poured out water when the spark plug was removed. Both outdrives were removed back in the mid 90?s and rebuilt but never reinstalled. It is a true project and it appears to be complete in the sense that everything looks to be there in boxes.

I really like the lines of the old Sea Ray?s and I can see the potential in it but, I am wondering, at what point does a person say, maybe I should pass on this project?

I realize that a person can spend the same amount if not more to bring a boat back to life and know exactly what you have compared to what could be spent to just purchase a newer one and understand that (from reading other posts, it seems that regardless of how good of a survey was done on it) structure, cosmetic, or mechanical problems or repairs will be expected, or the owner wants to customize it to there liking in some form or another which ads to the cost of the original purchase price. So I am looking at it like this, buy the boat cheap and fix it up right or spend more on a newer one an pay to fix the problems when they are discovered.

I will do all my own work and it seems that all the older boats need some kind of floor/stringer/transom work done to it so I am not afraid of this. I am guess I am just curious of how does a boat project get classified as ?it?s too big of a project? or money should not be wasted to try and save this boat. Keeping in mind that I only got to spend a little bit of time poking around on it and it appears to be in good shape but, I have to really get into it to check it out more closely.

 

[joey maneri]

Re: Boat rescuing??

The main reason to NOT put all that time into a boat is to make money on resale! I say check out the boat more closely, bring pen and paper to make a list of all that is wrong with the boat. Then add about 40% to the total. If it still seems worth it to you, DO IT! (landfills dont need more fiberglass)

 

[oops!]

Re: Boat rescuing??

the project gets junked at the money/time point....unless you love the boat or it has sentimental value.

for example......a 140 hp merc will run you approx 2500 rebuilt....you will most likely need new manifolds as well.400....belts, wires, ect.....another 500...

so that is 3400 per motor.....you need 2.......thats 6800....
can you do all the work?......no......add 800 rigging for just the motor and drives.

now you are at 7600.......is it rotted?.....ok....well thats 2k minimum and 200 of your own hours......so....now we are at 9600 and 200 man hours....(thats 20 sundays@10 hrs each)

we havent looked at the batteries or other systems yet...never mind statrted working on the gellcoat or the electronics.....

so how much were you going to steal this little baby for?

cheers
oops

 

[martyh]

Re: Boat rescuing??

The main reason to NOT put all that time into a boat is to make money on resale! I say check out the boat more closely, bring pen and paper to make a list of all that is wrong with the boat. Then add about 40% to the total. If it still seems worth it to you, DO IT! (landfills dont need more fiberglass)

Hey Joey,

Thanks for your input. I totally agree with you. It would definitely be the wrong one to try and resell for a profit as it will take a lot of elbow grease or labor to make it shine again. It would be for personal use, weekend Halibut, Salmon fishing or short trips with friends and family.

 

[martyh]

Re: Boat rescuing??

the project gets junked at the money/time point....unless you love the boat or it has sentimental value.

for example......a 140 hp merc will run you approx 2500 rebuilt....you will most likely need new manifolds as well.400....belts, wires, ect.....another 500...

so that is 3400 per motor.....you need 2.......thats 6800....
can you do all the work?......no......add 800 rigging for just the motor and drives.

now you are at 7600.......is it rotted?.....ok....well thats 2k minimum and 200 of your own hours......so....now we are at 9600 and 200 man hours....(thats 20 sundays@10 hrs each)

we havent looked at the batteries or other systems yet...never mind statrted working on the gellcoat or the electronics.....

so how much were you going to steal this little baby for?

cheers
oops

Hey Oops,

I?m glad that you drop by to comment. I spent a lot of time reading the thread you started about stretching the hull on your old boat some time ago. Very impressive to say the least!

Other than the fact that I really like the body lines of the older Sea Rays, it has no sentimental value to me as of right now. But, after spending some time talking with the owner, he told me lots of stories about the boat and I get the impression that he does. He and his wife had spent lots of time on the old girl and it sounds like they have many good memories with her. He even showed me some old pictures of the boat on the water in the early days when it looked shiny and new and has expressed an interest in going back out on it when it?s ready to go. He mentioned because it has sat so long he fears that it will go to the scrap yard and he doesn?t want to see that happen to her.

I have lots of automotive and some marine background. I have woodworking skills and some fiberglass but limited in combining the two together. I will be doing my own work and I have a few volunteers that want to help also. And thanks to the many members and posts on this board I have found plenty of information that will help me when I have questions.

I am keeping an open mind for drive train options as boat auctions around here can produce used boats with complete drive train packages for pretty cheap that I can use for donors. I have also looked and thought about the option of repowering it with the V6 engine?s and outdrives. I won?t know more until I really get into it with a tape measure.

I realize that the numbers can add up pretty quick resurrecting one of these things but, I like to look at the bigger picture. Hypothetically, using your numbers for starters lets say that the price to bring this thing back to life would cost 15k. People could argue that?s a lot of money to throw at and older boat. But, I like to look at it as, yes, that is a lot of money to throw at an older boat. But, on the other hand let?s take the same 15k and buy a newer boat not knowing what you really have and discover that it has issues that need to be fixed. So, on top of the original 15k now a person has to drop more into it to fix the issues or they will customize it they way they want it contributing to the original amount.

So, it goes back to my original question. Buy it cheap and fix it right from the start with the end results being you know what you have or paying more for it to start with and fix the surprises that pop up along the way and not really know what you have. I realize that it?s going to be a lot of money spent either way, I just like the end result being that I know what I have for the money and time I have spent.

I guess I was just looking to see if I am missing something or looking at something the wrong way and I was hoping for second opinions.

I am paying $500 for it under the terms that I will take the prior owners out on it when it?s done for more fishing adventures. He was happy that I was going to save the old girl and I was happy that I have found the boat that I like. It?s a win win situation?

Forgot to ad a picture, has not moved from this location in, I think he said 15 years.

 

[drewpster]

Re: Boat rescuing??

My big project boat was built in 1969. I understand your dilemma. I have the unique perspective of seeing where you will be in a few years if you buy this boat, with one difference. I bought mine seaworthy.
My wife and I bought 'Nostalgic' (a 24' greatlakes sportfish) just after we were married and we used the boat for several years before our daughter was born. We love the boat and refuse to part with it. That's why I do it. That alone.
We consider both our boats treasures. We enjoy them both and we are attached to them. If you do not have that kind of emotional attachment to a project boat of that scale, I cannot recommend restoring it.
Money is no issue. Boats, new or old, are NOT an investment. They cost allot of money no matter what condition they are in. If you dive in to the boating world you better have some expendable income. We have all heard the "hole in the water" adage. Its true.
From a pure DIY, "gearhead", perspective projects like this tip the scale as far difficulty goes. I have restored two cars in my life. Both of them done solely by me and my son. I sold them and made money. I do not hold the same hope for my boats. Restoring a boat presents a unique challenge. I have been working on things and using my hands my entire life. Restoring these boats has by far been the most challenging. If you do not have the commitment to get it done, I cannot recommend buying that old boat.

The short answer is this. If you want to make some money off of it, buy it and part it out. You will never pay for your time, but if you have the time to spend, you may make some cash.
If you are looking for a hugely challenging project that will occupy every spare moment for the next couple of years, go ahead and jump in.
I did and the water is fine.

enjoy
drewp

 

[jspano]

Re: Boat rescuing??

also consider the work area, space and wether it's heated or not. i'm work out side in florida ans have wanted to do some work but have been out weighed by weather

joe

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Boat rescuing??

You can consider a project "too big" when you're not able to come up with a realistic plan and schedule for completion.

First and most important though, ask yourself "Do I enjoy working with my hands?"... if you don't, I'd avoid this whole thing, because if you don't enjoy the work, you won't make it through. Even those of us that do like this stuff have a hard time when the going gets rough.

By "realistic" I mean you've read posts here and know what's involved as far as time and money, and you've assessed how much time you have to devote to the project, and compared that to when you want to have a working boat.

If you add up the money (the numbers always look big if you consider the whole project) and you figure out how much time per week you have, and then ask yourself "Am I ok spending xx hours on this week in and week out for x months (or years) when I could be doing other things and using the money somewhere else in order to have a working boat at the end?"

If you're ok with that, great, go for it. You may get lucky and get parts cheap, or get free help from someone, or maybe the boat needs less work than you think. Any of that can help make the whole thing go smoother.

Erik

PS: Obviously if you go for it, post here with pics Nice boat, I like the color.
PPS: If you want to save cash, a boat that size could be repowered with a single 454 or rebuilt 350, provided your performance expectations are adjusted.

 

[fishseeker]

Re: Boat rescuing??

I saw that boat on C/L. I bought a 24" Silverline in the same condition(search Sliverline Project,don't know how to link) knowing full well what I was in for. Needing transom and stingers. Not having alot of money I figured it was the only way I'd have a boat. Doing it alittle at a time. Had a time frame but that got blown by a wrist problem, hard to work one handed! There is plenty of help around to help you so don't let that stop you if you like the boat. Lotta people think its crazy to put the time and effort needed to bring them back to life but it can be fun. When your done you know what you have, and when your on the "Butt" grounds 30 miles off Tattosh thats a good feeling

Ya guys, stillaround everyday, Got L&I to reopen my claim, have Doc. app. tomorrow to see whats up with the wrist!!!

 

[martyh]

Re: Boat rescuing??

My big project boat was built in 1969. I understand your dilemma. I have the unique perspective of seeing where you will be in a few years if you buy this boat, with one difference. I bought mine seaworthy.
My wife and I bought 'Nostalgic' (a 24' greatlakes sportfish) just after we were married and we used the boat for several years before our daughter was born. We love the boat and refuse to part with it. That's why I do it. That alone.
We consider both our boats treasures. We enjoy them both and we are attached to them. If you do not have that kind of emotional attachment to a project boat of that scale, I cannot recommend restoring it.
Money is no issue. Boats, new or old, are NOT an investment. They cost allot of money no matter what condition they are in. If you dive in to the boating world you better have some expendable income. We have all heard the "hole in the water" adage. Its true.
From a pure DIY, "gearhead", perspective projects like this tip the scale as far difficulty goes. I have restored two cars in my life. Both of them done solely by me and my son. I sold them and made money. I do not hold the same hope for my boats. Restoring a boat presents a unique challenge. I have been working on things and using my hands my entire life. Restoring these boats has by far been the most challenging. If you do not have the commitment to get it done, I cannot recommend buying that old boat.

The short answer is this. If you want to make some money off of it, buy it and part it out. You will never pay for your time, but if you have the time to spend, you may make some cash.
If you are looking for a hugely challenging project that will occupy every spare moment for the next couple of years, go ahead and jump in.
I did and the water is fine.

enjoy
drewp

Hey Drewpster,
Thanks for the advice. After reading some of the replies I get the feeling that I am within a group of people that enjoy fixing things or tackling the ?projects?.

I too, have brought cars back from the dead or restored them to a certain degree so I can appreciate your perspective. Because of the way life is projects never seem to go quick. Years ago (before the value went crazy) I turned a 69 Plymouth Roadrunner into a ? mile race car. It took me three years to do (married at the time) and I sold it after only having 8 runs on it. Reality set in and it was no fun to drive because I could not drive it on the street. But, I did have a lot of fun building it.

It?s not something that I am wanting to turn to make a buck, and I would only consider selling (parting it out) the power train if I decide to repower it with a different engine package. Normally, when I try to turn things to make a buck I stay within limits of a small amount of time and money that would be needed to resell it and this one is way beyond the limit but it is something that I would do to keep. And if it did it correctly it would be good for years to come.

I kinda like the theme of the older cars with newer technology and I can see doing the same on this boat. Older boat, newer technology. I just wanted to make sure I was looking at every angle and the perspective of the replies helps me with the gray area in my minds eye.

 

[drewpster]

Re: Boat rescuing??

After thinking about it a little more I realize my "unique" perspective is not so unique in this forum. There are a bunch of people in here that are just as crazy as me. And we are all willing to help a fellow mental patient. Good Luck! And keep us informed.

 

[martyh]

Re: Boat rescuing??

I appreciate all the advice that you guys have provided.

I do enjoy working with my hands. In a sense it?s therapy for me just as fishing is. I guess the leading factor is that I really enjoy being out on the water, and I want to move up into something larger to fish for bigger fish or go to different places.

I have access to a shop to work on it in so that will make a huge difference. I?m okay with spending whatever amount of hours required on it until it gets done. Most projects are like that anyway regardless of what they are. It?s just a really great feeling of accomplishment when it?s done compared to paying somebody else to do the job/s for you.

The advice and information that you guys have offered confirms that I am just as crazy as you guys and it sounds like I will fit right in. I pick the boat up on Saturday, I?ll keep you updated.

 

[jspano]

Re: Boat rescuing??

martyh
i don't think any one decides to do a project on a boat to make $$. but it could fund a new project down the road(after using it for a while) i think that if i had some crystal ball and i knew my engine would go down after 3 \outings. and the hull was as bad as it was, i might not have bought the boat. some here told me to ditch the boat and start over, but i was afaird the next might be just has bad. so after reading here and seeing some others work(and just about everyone has found more problems as they have uncovered more of the old material.) 1 thing i have come up with is there are some very knowledgable people here some from their own mistakes these are the best to learn from. some one told me what i was doing would fail, even though the manufacture said it would be fine. when i asked if he had any past experience with the product the answer was no! just therory. i decided to continue with what i was doing and added some of what he suggested.
there are many good products out there some do the same thing just different manufactures.
good luck
prescription drugs help me sleep at night as i have a problem thinking too much at night lying in bed... might have to up the dosage... as it's 3:49am now
good luck and remember lots of pics
joe

 

[TexMojo]

Re: Boat rescuing??

Marty, good luck on the boat, while your displaced and if you need a fishing fix, shoot me a pm, I do salt and river and am usually always looking for someone to fish with. Take Care, TM

 

[robthompson66]

Re: Boat rescuing??

Marty,
That looks like it would make a good project, but just be prepared to replace everything. We thought that we would be able to save some mechanical parts but in the end we had to throw everything out. I was able to save the manifolds but my boat was in freshwater its whole life. Check out my thread that I have now (Boat I bought to Restore) and you can see some pictures of a similar sized boat disassembled. The project is a lot of fun, but I have a heated warehouse to work in and spend all my spare time there. Just as an idea, my mercruiser 5.7litre 260hp engines were $2000 for the machine work, plus a new intake, alternator, carburetor, coil, shift plate kit, exhaust hoses, flame arrestors, distributors, water pump. that's $1100 extra. roughly $3,400 per engine including hoses and belts.
I am on budget but I did set a realistic one.
Remember to have fun!
Rob

 

[boatflipper]

Re: Boat rescuing??

First off-
Great looking boat! Should provide you with plenty of knowledge once you do finish-knowledge that can forever be used on future projects!

About the terms on taking the previous owner(s) out on it once completed-I would MAKE SURE that the previous owner(s) realize that this rebuild is by no means a cake-walk and that it could be a couple years or more before you are finished.

Good Luck!!

 

[martyh]

Re: Boat rescuing??

Well, I got it drug home pretty easily. It was parked in pretty soft wet dirt and I pictured it sinking in the mud as I started to pull on it. Once it started rolling I kept it going, the truck started digging in and it pulled it right out. I?ll post pictures later tonight.

I have a couple more questions I?m hoping somebody can help me with. The prior owner claims the boat is a 1979 model but, there is no HIN on the transom. I have heard that boats were stamped with the HIN starting in 1979. Is there any truth to this?

The boat has stickers from Alaska and he claims that he has never had a title for it in all the years he has used it. It does say SRV240 on several places but how can I identify what year it really is and how does a person go about getting a title for registering it if it does not have a HIN?

 

[martyh]

Re: Boat rescuing??

Here ya go guys. It's in need of some serious cleaning to start with. I have a couple small projects to finish up before I can jump into this one so I will start a new thread when I do get going. Thanks for all your help and advice. I'm sure I will be asking more questions in the future.

The two outdrives are buried under the clutter.

I took some starbright rubbing compound to the paint, It cleaned up real nice....

 

[drewpster]

Re: Boat rescuing??

I offer all the support I can in your restore! But.....if you decide to go another way.....my wife and I have spotted several items of interest on that boat. Look me up.....yanno....if you decide to go another way.

My boat

 

[martyh]

Re: Boat rescuing??

I offer all the support I can in your restore! But.....if you decide to go another way.....my wife and I have spotted several items of interest on that boat. Look me up.....yanno....if you decide to go another way.

You need a trailer right????? Boy do I have a deal for you. Low miles, one owner, a real cream puff. LOL!!