Boat won't turn over w/'r' terminal on starter connected.

[arrkerr]

My boat has a '91 merc 3.0. I had it on the lake a month ago. Its starting to get cold so I went to winterize it today. I cranked it for maybe 10-15 seconds and it wouldn't start (not unusual, it hates me). I stopped cranking to give it a rest as I usually do, but when I flipped the key again it just clicked.

I found that the solenoid is clicking but I get no voltage on the output side that runs to the starter's start terminal. So I presume the solenoid is broken.

I jumped the solenoid (with the ignition key in the off position, and I *think* the on position) and hear the starter engage click but then the wire started making bad over-draw noises and the motor didn't turn. Yikes.

I removed and bench tested the started and it works like a charm.

Realizing the only difference is that I didn't have the 'R' ignition terminal connected up on my starter on the bench, and did on the boat, I removed that wire and jumped the solenoid again and my motor turns over.

I'm baffled at what is going on. From what I understand that terminal is an output to provide 12v to the coil (which also has another wire going to it).

Since the boat was turning over and just didn't want to start before this started happening I can't imagine any wires could have magically moved to the wrong place, but if the solenoid is bad something else could possibly have shorted out or who knows what.

Any suggestions on how to proceed? I'm tempted to try leaving that wire from the starter disconnected, but I'm skeptical if the boat will even start if that it what provides the power to the coil (whats the other wire for then?). Maybe something is wrong w/my coil?

Thanks for any pointers!

 

[Don S]

Re: Boat won't turn over w/'r' terminal on starter connected.

Pull the spark plugs out and turn the engine by hand and see if you have water in the cylinders. If you do, you have a hydro lock and you will not turn the engine.

 

[arrkerr]

Re: Boat won't turn over w/'r' terminal on starter connected.

Its not hydro-locked. I did pull the plugs, and it turns over just fine when I jump the solenoid and don't have that 'r' terminal connected.

It is now bugging me that maybe the ignition being in the off position when I jumped the solenoid was a bad thing - maybe it grounds out the coil and I was shorting the system. I *think* I tired it in the on position initially, but my mind is playing tricks on me and I'll head out to the garage and give it another shot, making sure I'm in "on".

 

[Don S]

Re: Boat won't turn over w/'r' terminal on starter connected.

Not sure what you are calling the R and W terminals. Have a look at this thread and see if it helps.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=167035

 

[arrkerr]

Re: Boat won't turn over w/'r' terminal on starter connected.

What I was calling the 'R' terminal is what I got from the starter wiring diagram, which in the diagram you referenced is the 'D' terminal on the starter solenoid. In the diagram you referenced that isn't connected to anything. On my boat it goes to the + side of the coil.

So it turns out I missed a very important step. My key, apparently, was in the 'off' position when I got to jumping the slave solenoid. On my boat, in the off position, the coil is grounded out, so the 'D' terminal was grounded, which shorted out the system.

Flipped the key to 'on', jumped the slave, started right up.

Man, thank you SO much for the help (a good nights sleep and not have a 2-year-old wanting dinner also helps).

Might be worth adding some comments to that diagram about that terminal - unless it is there in a comment and I missed it.

Problem solved!

 

[arrkerr]

Re: Boat won't turn over w/'r' terminal on starter connected.

Annnd I jinxed it. After it started up I let it warm up and changed the oil. Went to start it again using the same procedure and it draws a ton of current and the starter just clicks. Either something is shorting out the system, or the starter is misbehaving. I can still turn it by hand. And of course, every time it *won't* start, it immediately starts raining on me.

Gargh, time for a new hobby.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Boat won't turn over w/'r' terminal on starter connected.

What I was calling the 'R' terminal is what I got from the starter wiring diagram, which in the diagram you referenced is the 'D' terminal on the starter solenoid. In the diagram you referenced that isn't connected to anything. On my boat it goes to the + side of the coil.

So it turns out I missed a very important step. My key, apparently, was in the 'off' position when I got to jumping the slave solenoid. On my boat, in the off position, the coil is grounded out, so the 'D' terminal was grounded, which shorted out the system.

Flipped the key to 'on', jumped the slave, started right up.

Man, thank you SO much for the help (a good nights sleep and not have a 2-year-old wanting dinner also helps).

Might be worth adding some comments to that diagram about that terminal - unless it is there in a comment and I missed it.

Problem solved!

Ayuh,... That is Wrong.... The coil is either Powered, or Not, by the keyswitch...

The shift switch grounds out the coil, but only shiftin' Outa gear, In the water...

The keyswitch shouldn't be groundin' Anything, it only carries the power side of the circuits...
except for some old outboards..

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Boat won't turn over w/'r' terminal on starter connected.

on some older models there was a extra wire from the starter solinoid to the coil i think the idea was to assist with voltage drop while starting or the older style ignition switch didnt make contact while starting. added a link to a pic with the terminal (reference only) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/im...90-8391627-7176325?ie=UTF8&img=3&s=automotive

from experiance with car starters i have found that a starter can be good on a bench test (no load) yet unable to start a motor when theres a poor connection on battery, solinoid contacts are bad, armature brushes are worn, the armature is dirty or the field coil is damadged. jumping this type of starter doesnt work as the bendix will not engage the flywheel so you can either have a shop test the starter under load or replace it. i normally would be saying that its a bad idea to change a item until its proven dead but after i had a start fail on me i realised that you carnt bump start a boat and thats a rather critical piece to have fail

forgot to add that which way you have the key will not affect the starter from spinning when jumped so its time to pull the starter and have it load tested

 

[arrkerr]

Re: Boat won't turn over w/'r' terminal on starter connected.

Turns out it was the starter after all. I'm not sure if it was engaging and just not able to turn the motor, or my guess is that the internal gears were jamming up - maybe a tooth broke off or something - I'll have to dismantle it to find out. Maybe the orientation had something to do with it on the boat vs. in my vice on my desk. Or maybe something with the winding. Every once in a blue moon it'd crank the boat just fine, but then when you'd stop cranking it'd overload the circuit and do nothing the next time, yet never did that on the bench.

Thanks for the help, and that was good advice to take it somewhere to have it load tested vs. just a bench test. I'm not sure if that would have caught it or not, since it turns w/plenty of power when it does turn. Man that wire from the coil really threw me through a loop!

So problem solved - definitely a bad starter. Thanks again for everyone's help and input, much appreciated.