BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

blue bayou

Cadet
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
17
Where is the best place to be in a lightning storm while in the boat? I have a small cuddy cabin boat and the last 2 times we have tried to hide under a bridge or run it back to the ramp. I have heard the boat is the safest place? :eek: How true is this? Thanks
 

lakeman1999

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
550
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

Hey!!this has always been a big concern of mine. my fishing boat is made of aluminum, and my pontoon is an all aluminum one (having an aluminum, not a plywood deck). When you are on the water, and a storm comes up, the persons, and the bimini top (made of aluminum) are the only objects sticking above the surface, yet I have never seen a news story where someone, or a group were killed by lightning in a boat. I know that an automobile is the safest place to be on land, because the rubber tires insulate you from the earth. With this reasoning, the most dangerous place you could be would be in an aluminum vessal on the water. I have been in search of the answer to this question ever since retiring and moving to the lake in 1995, does anyone know the answer, or is anyone familiar with a death by lightning strike while on the water in a boat? I have, ever since being a child many years ago heard warnings to get out of the water (while swimming) during a thunder storm, yet I have never heard of anyone being killed by lightning while swimming or boating, where as there are always stories in the paper about persons, and groups of cattle in a pasture being injured or killed by lightning. :confused: :confused: :confused:
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,097
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

Well, I really don't have the answers you're looking for.... But, I Challenge the 1 theory you state Walt....<br /> I know that an automobile is the safest place to be on land, because the rubber tires insulate you from the earth. <br /><br />This is a Very True statement, But the reasoning is Off.......<br />It's Not the tires that insulate the car(truck, etc)... The Lightening has just traveled several Miles through Air, Do you think 6"s of rubber is going to slow it down At All..?????<br />It's the Shell of Metal that your sitting in that directs the Voltage Around you, to the Ground.....<br />IF it was the Tires, Why are Farmers Killed while driving a tractor accross a field ????? It's because there's no cab on their tractor....<br /><br />With that said, I've ridden out Many a Thunder-Buster, in my Aluminum boat, w/Aluminum bimini roof.... My Only concern is, If Struck, Will it Blow a Large Hole in my Hull......
 

blue bayou

Cadet
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
17
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

In an aluminum boat I'm sure I would be even more concerned about the lightening. Water is a conductor and so is aluminum. The fisherman I have talked to say the fiberglass will ground you from the water. What about the rest of the boat that has stainless and aluminum on it. I got a transfer shock I felt from holding the bow rail (I was trying to put the boat back on the trailer and go home). That's how close the lightening has been lately. We have tried to outrun it at 40 mph. We hide under a bridge on land which the bridge got struck by lightening twice on the other side. North Florida weather moves quickly and NOAA seems to be as good as the local weather forcaster's. After boating for numerous years and never having a problem the last 2 times out has not only made up for it but I'm thinking about "throwing in the towel" until the lightening at least stops. :(
 

crab bait

Captain
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Messages
3,831
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

i crabbin' in a buddies alum crab boat at WYE MILLS maryland.. a storm 'bum rushed' us.. bolts strikin' everwhere.. <br /><br />i was so scared i didn't want to pray ,, cause i didn't want to draw any attention to myself......
 

catfish1

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2003
Messages
683
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

electricity will take the least resistance to ground! whether your in an aluminum boat or a fiberglass boat, your going to feel it if its close! doesnt matter whether your on land or sea, the odds of being struck are the same. being out on water during a lightning storm is a risk. and the best thing to do is get indoors, if you can!<br />i myself get off the water when i see any indication of a storm, immediatly. its not the lightning that scares me, its the wind and waves that follow!
 

snapperbait

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
5,754
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

Darn good question and I wish I new the answer.. Like Blue Bayou says about the weather here in FL., it comes up fast.. Sometimes there's just no getting around it.. Just grin and bear it..<br /><br />Spent many an afternoon gettin well aquanted with the local "under the bridge inhabitants" while waiting out a storm... :) I (if possible) tie the boat off and get out on land and get up as far under the bridge as possible...
 

poolshark38759

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
155
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

my brother and one of his friends got struck by lightening a couple years ago in a ranger bass boat...didnt hurt either one of them, but it did knock two holes in each side of the boat in line with the consoles and blew up his lowrance x71 and flasher and a couple of fuses on his mercury ob...they were told the only thing that saved them was they were wet from swimming and the water kept the lightening on the out side of them... he carried the boat back to ranger to have a new hull installed..ranger said it was the first one they had ever seen hit by lightening...
 

ooootis

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Messages
80
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

YA know as a kid I had a paper route (that was before adults in large trucks took over) and was riding my bike took a short cut thru the woods did this everyday but one afternoon here in md a storm blew up outta no where and struck a tree about 15 feet from me. Blowed a really large hole on the tree singed it really bad. I was going home to change my draws. Never forget the smell in the air ,rememeber train transformers when they get hot to the 100 power. Static off a ballon rubbed on your hair. Its lightning out i respect cause u just cant tell what is going to do
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

Just remember, lightning will tend to go to or come from (it does come from the ground to the clouds also) to highest or closest points or objects to the cloudmass. If there are mountains, hills, tall trees, any of that near the body of water you are in, the lightning will go there. The only way to be truly safe is to monitor the weather and get off the water before the storm hits, but the lightning is the least of your worries if you are on a large lake in a bad storm.
 

dhammann

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Messages
299
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

Nothing is safe, but a metal boat with a metal frame top in the up position is safer than a fiberglass one. The metal acts as a "faraday" cage the same way a car does. In a fiber boat YOU are the path of least resistance! Your body will charge to an increasing level in voltage until it exceeds the insulating capacity of the hull...when it does it will go though you, blow a hole in the hull to get to the water and if your still alive to see it...sink the boat!!!
 

BrianFD

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
748
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

OK, so how do you know if there's lightning around?<br />Tune your radio (AM/FM) to the AM band, off a station to a steady "white noise". If you hear loud crackles of static, that's lightning, and it's close enough to tell you to get off the water or seek decent shelter. If you get caught in a storm, don't be the tallest object---lay low in your boat. Lightning is the second most weather-related cause for fatalities (after floods).<br />Happy Boating!<br />Brian
 

lakeman1999

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
550
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

Hey bondo, I finally found the correct group of words to use on google, to answer my question. With the combination of words "boat water lightning strike" I found out many things, and answered your fear also, because your boat is aluminum, it will not blast a hole in the bottom, but will conduct the lightning to ground. I also found out you are very much safer in an aluminum boat, than a fib-glass or composite boat, and safer yet if you have the aluminum framework for a bimini top on it, for the same reason you were right when you corrected me on the enclosed capsul, versus insulating tires, which I found to be a commonly quoted falsehood (by myself, and many others).<br />
With that said, I've ridden out Many a Thunder-Buster, in my Aluminum boat, w/Aluminum bimini roof.... My Only concern is, If Struck, Will it Blow a Large Hole in my Hull......
boat water lightning strike<br /> http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=barron004 <br />marine surveyors and insurance companies are swamped with calls from sailors whose boats have been struck. <br /> http://www.seacom.us/pages/4/ <br />However, most recreational boats are manufactured from fiberglass/resin and so cannot provide the protection of their larger metal cousins. A primary lightning protection system is a must for small, recreational vessels. <br /> http://www.mdsg.umd.edu/CB/lightning.html <br />Because water conducts electricity so well, and because a boat - or even a person - may present a high profile on water, boaters need to take special precautions. Records show that lightning has killed people who were standing in or fishing from boats or starting outboard motors. One study shows that out of 494 people killed while involved in outdoor recreation, 200 were in, on or near open water. This same study listed an additional 177 who were injured while on or near open waters. Water and lightning are a natural combination. WHAT CAN YOU DO? To protect yourself in a boat, the important thing is to give lightning a ground. Boats made of steel, such as naval vessels, have an automatic ground in their metal hulls; but most small boats, usually constructed of fiberglass or wood, prevent the lightning easy access to the water and pose a grounding problem. Small boats may also lack tall objects which could deflect lightning, and even boats that do have tall spars - like sailboats - can run into problems if their spars are not properly grounded. The following grounding system will minimize the risk of lightning damage: :D :D
 

blue bayou

Cadet
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
17
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

Thanks for the great links lakeman 1999. Looks like your boat is safer than mine I was wrong about the material of the boat. So were 2 other professional captains I spoke with. My boat is made of fiberglass and I have no lightning protection on board. I guess I have learned to ditch the boat and head for the ground under the bridge. Florida storms come fast and in the intercoastal you can only head 2 directions. North and South. So if you don't head into the storm eventually it's going to catch up with you anyway. Thanks again :)
 

lakeman1999

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
550
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

Blue bayou, in the web sights that I posted there they tell you how to rig your fi-glass, or composit boat, to ground it, and make it a lot safer. A radio antaane, mast, or a metal rod sticking into the air, and connected (ground wire) to a metal plate on the bottom of the boat will do the job. :D :D
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,097
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

Cool....<br />Faraday Cage effect......<br />I never knew the name......
 

MajBach

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
564
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

As an avid storm chaser and pilot with several years’ education in meteorology, I feel compelled to add to this discussion. After listening for years to ridiculous explanations and speculations describing the behavior of lightning I still laugh at some of the stories I hear. Stories of car tires protecting occupants from their insulation and fisherman getting hit and surviving without a scratch still make me shake my head.Truth is, there is a lot left to learn about how lightning behaves. Nevertheless, there is a lot we DO know about it. Yes, lightning is electricity and for the most part, follows the same rules; like taking the path of least resistance. But lightning also writes a few rules of its own, like it takes whatever path it wants.<br />If a car is hit by lightning, NO WAY the rubber tires do a thing. The fact that lightning did hit a car demonstrates that there is a closed circuit and electricity is flowing. If the tires stopped the lightning, then it would have nevr hit in the first place. It's like what BONDO said, the metal shell acts like a cage and diverts the electricity around the driver by offering an easier path. People who claim to be hit by lightning and saved by wet shorts or feel a jolt of electricity in a bow rail, have absolutely no concept of what has just really took place. Lightning does not just come down from the clouds and hit an object or the ground. In fact, hundreds of what could be described as ‘forks’ of electricity spread out down from the clouds and once they get near the ground, draw similar charges up into the air. When any two meet, a complete lightning stoke is BORN. A lightning stroke that occurs miles away can be part of one single ‘chain’ of charges that never got completed. People that experience charges or jolts of electricity that they think is lightning are almost certainly a part of this preliminary anatomy of a lightning bolt but never part of the real thing. <br />Think of lightning as a giant room with hundreds of doors marked ‘exit’ and thousands of people pushing their way to get out. Only a few of the doors actually open but that doesn’t prevent hundreds of people from trying all of them anyway. When someone finally does find a door that opens, everyone else stops what they are doing and finds their way to that one good door and funnels out – even if there are still other doors that might works. <br />In the real world, lightning can behave in very mysterious ways. The fact that lightning is rarely a ruler straight line would suggest that it does not follow the rule of taking the path of least resistance. But that has a lot to do with the inconsistencies in the air. When it comes to solid structures, lightning usually does take the path of least resistance. But don’t forget, you can only stuff so much water into a garden hose. Many objects simply cannot handle a full charge of lightning and other objects in the immediate area have to share the charge. Why do you think it’s unsafe to stand under a tree? The tree attracts lightning by offering an easier path to the ground than the surrounding air. But once the electricity get to the near the ground, YOU may be easier to travel through than the tree. Now, in a scenario such as this, one must remember that lightning didn’t come down from the sky, go into a tree, exit the tree in favor of a human and then finally into the ground. What really took place was lightning came partway down from the sky and simultaneously a charge came up from the ground and built up in YOU, the human near the tree. That charge came through your head – since it’s trying to find its way to the sky – stopped and said ‘the best way to go is in that there tree’. So it goes into the tree and out the top until it meets the lightning coming down from the sky. On average, these charges about the same as a household toaster – enough to kill but not always. So, if you do not end up being part of the completed circuit, i.e. lightning does occur but somewhere other than the tree you are beside, you’ll live to tell about it. And 99 people out of 100 will say they were hit by lightning when they weren’t.<br />Once lightning comes down from the sky, it’s going to go through something. CHANCES are, and I say chances because there is nothing definite here, that the person standing under the tree will be the one that is killed as opposed to the standing several hundred feet away. But it could go wither way. The one that isn’t standing under the tree will also probably feel the ‘effects’ of the lightning, because electricity pooled up in him too. But that electricity never manifested itself into a true lightning bolt because it had the disadvantage of having no where to go, like a tree, once it reached the top of the head.<br />The same is true in a boat. Chances are, two boats side by side, one tin and the other glass, the guy in the tin boat will be the one that gets hit. So in that respect, he has the greatest risk. BUT, he has a better chance of survival since the aluminum MIGHT carry the entire charge of lightning through the hull. In a glass boat, people inside offer an easier path than the fiberglass, and therefore might be more likely to be killed if lighting does strike it. But overall, the boat itself is less attractive RELAVTIVE to the aluminum boat in the formation of lightning. Unless it’s really convenient, lightning might simply choose to go through thin air. <br />All this is mostly true, so far as the safety of the occupants is concerned, providing that the boat is still the highest point, i.e. no one is standing up. A bimini top, while being the highest point on the boat and having steel tubing, is hardly significant protection. - no more than a tent. Chances are, if you are underneath one and lightning hits, it’s going to go though you as well. <br />Even a house is little protection. People often have the misconception that if they are inside something, like a tent, car, boat or house – out of the rain – they are protected. What a false sense of security! If it weren’t for the plumbing and electrical wires in your house, you might as well stand under a tree.The air inside the house is more conductive to electricity because of the dust and pollen inside than the air outside. All lightning has to do is penetrate a half inch of wood on the roof! NO problem for as much as 500 million volts.<br />Bottom line is, no place is truly 100 % safe, except maybe a bank vault. But what is better? If you are on an aluminum boat in the middle of God’s country, is it safe to go to stand on shore and wait it out? Course not. But don’t be out in the middle of the lake either. If you consider that when a lightning bolt forms, it does have a limited area in which it will strike. If you offer the only advantageous route within that area, -like standing in the middle of a treeless fairway or occupying a boat in the MIDDLE of the lake, you are increasing the risk. It’s best to go near shore, but don’t get out and stand under a tree or go into a tent. Put up your top and lie down in the boat. This way you give lightning several other options for it to complete it’s journey.<br />Several years ago, I wrote to a professor at the University of Florida, Martin Uman; probably the world’s foremost authority on lightning. I wrote to inquire about constructing my own lightning rod for my boat. I have an aluminum boat that I frequently sleep in, even though there is no cuddy. In Georgian Bay, there are frequent storms and although I am nuts about storm chasing, I am scared ****less when I am in a boat or tent during a storm. What I had done was take some 4 gauge wire and placed some clips on it to attach to my fishing poles while they were vertical in their holders. I then attached this to an anchor with a detachable bolt and let it hang over the side if I was docked, or run the length of the anchor rope if I was anchoring. He informed me that it was indeed better than not having a lightning rod at all, but said it was quite important that the highest point of the wire - at the end of the fishing pole – form a point, but he didn’t say why. He also said, actually gave me a formula, that the wire have as few turns or bends in it as possible; a ninety degree bends was a no-no! Lightning will shoot straight through rather than taking a sharp turn. Finally, an anchor wasn’t ideal as a dispersion plate, although but better than none at all. Ideally, a flat piece of sheet metal at least one square foot was better. Although this entire set-up would indeed INCREASE the chances of being hit, it would greatly minimize the chances of it hurting me.<br /> One final thing to keep in mind, you only have to be near lightning to fry your electronics. The magnetic field that is set up as a result of a lightning strike even several hundred feet away induces a current in anything conductive, from your fish finder to your wrist watch.<br />Anyway, guess I have gone on long enough. What can I say, I am a buff! Hope this is beneficial in answering some questions to anyone bored enough to read it through.<br />MajBach
 

n0ukf

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
153
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

Blue bayou, (coming in a little late, just got back from vacation)<br />
North Florida weather moves quickly and NOAA seems to be as good as the local weather forcaster's.
Where do you think most local forcasters get their weather information?<br /><br />JasonJ<br />
Just remember, lightning will tend to go to or come from (it does come from the ground to the clouds also) to highest or closest points or objects to the cloudmass.
If you're talking about electrons in the lightning bolt, they travel from whichever area is more negative to the other more positive area of the circuit. That being said, you can also consider the positive charge (lack of electrons, commonly referred as a "hole" charge) as travelling toward the negatively charged area. As these charges meet, you get an electron current travelling from negative to positive (could be cloud-to-ground, ground-to-cloud or clout-to-cloud). This is a place you don't want to be, especially without some form of Faraday Cage protection, whether it's a simple lightning rod above you or a full metal cage surrounding you directing a strike to ground (in this case water).
 

miloman

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Messages
1,181
Re: BOATING/FISHING WHILE LIGHTNING

Maj Bach great info actually this was one of the best posting I have read in a long time. I have always wondered about this as i fish both glass and tin I see that my feelings were right when I hear the crackle or god forbid see a bolt i head for shore and try to find some sort of protection although usually there is none so i just crouch down and wait it out
 
Top