Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

[kwoolard]

I am currenlty in the process of replacing my head gaskets. The heads have been off for a couple weeks for servicing and to allow me, with what free time I have, to clean up the engine block. I will be installing them tonight and had a question about the lifters and the valve train.<br /><br />In my Seloc manual it states that the ford valve train is not adjustable, that you just torque down the rocker arm nuts to 20ft-lbs. I am not sure if mine have been changed over to adjustable studs or not during the previous owner's rebuild. The rocker arm studs are just regular studs with no positive stop shoulder. They are just threaded down about 1 inch or so and I have a 5/16" nut that tightens down the rocker arm assembly. Is this set up considered non-adjustable? If so, do I just turn the nut 1/2 to 3/4 turn past zero lash?<br /><br />Next, since my lifters have set in their place for about 2 weeks without oil do I need to pull them out and soak them in oil overnight or is that not neccesary since I am reusing them?

 

[kwoolard]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

Sorry, forgot to post that it's a 1974 888 Mercruiser with a Ford 302. Which has the 302 firing order (15426378) and has been rebuilt about 8-9 years ago. The heads are stamped 302 in the rocker arm valley.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

Mine is a '73 and I have a different firing order. Anyway,I don't think they are adjustible. Tighten them to 20#, and that's it. It is critical that the push rods go back in the exact place that they came from or you will have to go through the measurement process. The length of the push rods determine how much the valve opens. Chevys are alot easier in this department.

 

[kwoolard]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

J.kopec, what do your rocker arm studs look like? Are they fastened down with a bolt, a nut, do they have a shoulder stop? <br /><br />I have been told by a local shop that mine are adjustable based off of the description I gave in my first post. I don't know the difference as this is the only engine I have worked on. I want to be sure before I crank the engine the first time. Like I said the engine has been rebuilt, and from what I hear at the machine shop, most people with non-adjustable rockers replace them with adjustable studs during a rebuild.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

Mine are just a flat raised surface where the stud screws into, rocker arm sits on that then the nut that holds the rocker arm on. It sounds like they are the same as mine, and they are not the adjustible type. If you have the heads off, take them to the local shop you spoke of and see what they say. Also my heads are stamped 351, I don't know if that makes a difference. This is the first Ford I have worked on,[have had it 2 years], so I can't really say that I have a thorough knowledge of Ford motors. You're firing order puzzles me though. Mine is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. From what I have heard, Ford changed their firing order in the early 80's. I suspect that you may have a newer motor than a '74, and that might change things. I guess you would have to find the casting # and see what year your motor was actually manufactured. Hope this helps...J

 

[kwoolard]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

What is the difference in appearance between adjustable and non-adjustable? How would someone know exactly what they have?<br /><br />I'm not sure about the heads being the originals, I do know that the block is. My father-in-law was the previous owner and performed the rebuild. Unfortunately, he his know longer with us to answer the questions I have.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

Having never seen the adjustible type, I can't answer your question. From your description they sound exactly like mine, and mine are not the adjustible type. Do they look like fig.#5 in section 5B-4 of Mercury manual #2? Are you sure about the firing order?

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

You might seek Boomyal's advice, He is a die hard Ford man. I'm sure he knows alot more than me................J

 

[kwoolard]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

The only manual that I have is the Seloc manual, so I don't have that picture to compare. I am sure about the firing order, that is what is stamped on my intake manifold. <br /><br />Boomyal, you out there? Any advice?

 

[kwoolard]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

Check out the link below J.kopec or Boomyal. The middle picture of the rocker arm assembly on page 159 is my setup. The one with the "loose fit" holes for the pushrods. Is this the same setup you guys have?<br /><br />If so, do I just torque the rocker arm down to 20ft-lbs?<br /><br />Also, check out the rocker arm studs on the next page, 160. Which ones do you guys have?<br /> Ford Rocker Arm & Stud Configurations

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

Kwoolard, I would have to say that I have the middle config. on page 159 & config #2 on page 160. I must admit I haven't seen them in a year though. See what Boomyal says... Or post with the word "Ford" that should bring out the die-hards. I think you have non-adjustible lifters...20# and that's it.......J

 

[JasonB]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

Someone say FORD????<br /><br />To answer the question, I am pretty sure they are non-adjsutable.<br /><br />The Ford engines seem to use an interesting assortment of parts. Some of the 302s had 351 heads, some had 302 heads. The 351s, in theory, flow better. The big mounting difference is the size of the mounting holes. My '76 888 has 351 heads that were factory cast with the same valves as the std 302 heads, just a slightly larger cc chamber I believe.<br /><br />Early 888's seem to have Holley 2300 carbs, later had Rochesters.<br /><br />I believe (not proven) that most came with 351 cams and thus the 351 firing order. When I rebuilt mine, I switched it to a 302 cam.

 

[kwoolard]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

Thanks guys, maybe Boomyal will chime in soon to give me another opinion.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

How'd I miss this one???<br />Kwollard. your rocker arms are not adjustable, just torque them down and be off with ya. <br /><br />The only time that the valve lash is of concern on your motor is if you do a valve job. As the valve rises into the newly cut valve seat, the machinist then trims off the top of the valve stem to return the valve stem height to it's proper dimension in relation to your valve train.<br /><br />The other time that you would have a concern is if you changed camshafts with a smaller or larger base circle dimension. At that point you may have to consider changing your pushrods. Otherwise, as stated, just plug and play..<br /><br />Jason, my 190hp OMC (equivalent to the Merc 888) came with the 351 cam and firing order. OMC even ground the 302 firing order off of the stock OEM two bbl manifold. OMC did have a 175hp version. It came with the 302 cam and firing order.

 

[kwoolard]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

Boomyal,<br />The machine shop reground the valve seats so I guess I should probably check the valve clearance. What is the correct method.....collapse the lifter and use a feeler gauge between the rocker arm and the valve stem? Is the Seloc manual method for doing this correct?

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

That would be the proper proceedure to check them, in addition to bringing each cylinder to top dead center, but there would be no way for you to adjust them if they were not right. I would just call the machine shop and ask if they ground the valve stems to compensate for the new seat level. It should be common practice. <br /><br />To collapse the lifters, you'd have to pull each one out to do it quickly. Otherwise you would have to put each valve at the top of the lobe and hope there is enough spring tension to slooooooooowly collapse each lifter.

 

[JasonB]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

Merc did the same thing about grinding off the firing order. What advantage does the 351 order give if any? Never quite figured that one out.<br /><br /><br />BTW, how's that carb you were working with?

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

Originally posted by JasonB:<br /> Merc did the same thing about grinding off the firing order. What advantage does the 351 order give if any? Never quite figured that one out.<br /><br /><br />BTW, how's that carb you were working with?

It's not so much just the firing order, it's what the nature of the camshaft dictates. The 351 cam has more grunt than the 302 had so that's why they used it to up the HP from the std 302.<br /><br />Believe or not, the carb is still in it's box where my wife put it after it arrived. She usually puts packages for me by my computer. This one smelled like gasoline (probably had one free floating gasoline molecule buzzing around) so she put it out on the back patio. That's where it has stayed.<br /><br />I've been concentrating on getting my boat ready to accept the engine, so I'm sure that I will check out the carb soon.<br /><br />I'm just waiting, today, for the outside temp to get close to 80 deg so I can go out and foam my gastank in place. Once done, I'll glass over it, final sand the bilge and aft section and hopefully give her a coat of brightsides this weekend. Finally I'll be ready to drop the engine in.<br /><br />Now, aren't you glad you asked!

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

Not to jump posts but now I am completely baffled.........So are you saying that 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 is a 351 firing order and not a 302 order? I do have 351 stamped on my heads, but I definatly have a 888. Where does 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 come from

 

[JasonB]

Re: Boomyal??? FORD Rocker Arm Studs and Lifter Questions

J.Kopec, that is the 302 order. The two use a different order. If you look close, there's just a couple cylinders flipped from one end to the other. Merc generally used the 351 cam/order on the 302, which works just fine. The 351 is a torque monster compared to the 302.<br /><br />Hmmmmm, maybe I shoulda put a 351 cam back in... Oh well, my 302 cam does quite well and it has plenty grunt the get up and go. These days,a ren't teh 302 and 351 cams pretty much available with the same grinds except for the order?<br /><br />I'm anxious to see your your engine performs, as I will have to find a new block next rebuild I', sure as I've alreay bored it 30 over and really don't want to push it any further.<br /><br />Remember, fiberglass is your friend and the smeel isn't that bad. Now just keep repeating that....