Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

[newbster]

Here is the other side of the "sold a boat and it busted" thread. I purchased a 26' Islander from a guy in another state. He takes it down to a large marina which flags a couple of minor issues and rebuilds the carb then gives the boat a clean bill of health. Based on that, I we agreed on a price and the boat was delivered.

When the boat arrives it will not start. Rotor was damaged, I replaced. Checked compression and found 1-85, 2-145, 3-125, 4-125. Busted ring is likely culprit since putting a bit of oil down the jug brings it from 85-to 120. Motor will not start. Supposedly rebuilt carb freely pours out fuel with pressure in the line and spark is barely there. I did get the motor to run once and it also is consuming coolant.

I received the report from the marina after the sale and they did not check off a compression check being done. When I talked to the manager before the sale he told me it had good compression and ran great. I also sent the marina an email asking them if they did compression checks as part of a pre-sales and they replied it was standard procedure.

So.... what to do? Repower is the obvious answer but I just paid for a good engine and it obviously was not. When I talked to the owner he admitted the marina tech told him the coolant level was low but he did not mention it to me nor did they say anything on the report.

 

[AguaSki]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

If you have any options, it is with the marina, but I don't that is very realistic. Almost everyone agrees in CB's thread that "As Is" means "As Is". You may or may not have signed a bill of sale, but the fact that you had a marina look over the engine should release the prior owner from any liability. I don't think you have much recourse with the prior owner, but you never know if you can get a 30 something attorney filling in as a judge to agree with you.

 

[v1_0]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

I guess I would try to reach an agreement with the previous owner and more importantly with the marina.

Maybe they will help you out with the repower/rebuild or whatever.

If not, I would consult with a good lawyer to see if there is a case and if so, what you could expect to 'win' and how much it would cost you. (I would focus on the Marina - you did buy the boat based on their expertise. They also rebuilt the carb badly - should be some sort of reciept and warranty for the rebuild at least...)

"As Is" in this case included a nod of approval from an expert saying the 'boat was fine'. When delivered, it wasn't. This is a big descrepency - it's not like the boat ran for even 1 hour well.

I wouldn't hold the previous owner responsible for this as much as the marina. Unless, there was some collusion? Or, an engine swap after the inspection.

-V

 

[newbster]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

He paid the marina.

There was no "as is" sale. The title was simply signed over to me without a bill of sale. The price was agreed on based on the marinas inspection.

 

[azlakes]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

Agree with above posts, you have some recourse with the marina mechanics since that motor is no where near a clean bill of health. Call them be cordial but firm to see if you can get them to handle in house rather than court house...

Good luck.

 

[oops!]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

hey nubster.
Welocme!
we been waiting for you!
thats an unfortunate situation. it really sucks! you sellin your bike and all.
boats are a tricky thing. we all know it, thats why were here on this site!
no bull here." sold a boat" thread is a big one, as you see. right now, you probably have few fans.
Thanks for your side!
im just wondering, as we all are. if the marina gave it a clean bill of health, why didnt they catch the rotor? thats an idiots mistake. you say it wouldnt even start for you!
we had information (on the civil suit) you ran the boat for 4.5 hours before it failed.
can you please post the bill of sale so we all can see it didnt say "as is". That would change a lot of minds.

by the way. i would consider suing the marina! Here in canada, when someone "a professional of the trade" gives somthing a "clean bill of health" THEY ARE LIABLE! if it goes bad.
thats why they buy insurance. eg. a home inspector. and a marine surveyor!

as for your question about the re power. what do you intend to do with the boat? ski? over night? tube? fish? that will give you insight as to what motor you want in it.

if you post the bill of sale with no "as is" clause ill bet someone here has a motor you can have!

all of our responce on the the "sold a boat" thread is based on the "as is" clause

btw fyi.
I had harsh accusations about you.
i was also the one that suggested we all chip in money for CB's laywer.

may i also suggest that all your communications "even thru this fourm" be thru your lawyers.

best of luck
oops

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

Back when I bought my 27', the guy said the engine was professionally rebuilt. It sat for 5 years with the engine sitting wrapped in plastic on a pallet in his shop. Parts in boxes n buckets. Yes I got a deal on it, but I also went with the info that the engine was rebuilt.

I put the engine on a stand, pulled the oil pan. Nice and clean with new bearings and seals. Rotated the engine over and pulled one of the heads. Dirty nasty carbon with evidence that the heads were never pulled off. Flipped the engine back over with the crank and rods up. Unbolted a rod cap and the piston fell right out of the cylinder. Yep, bad rings and engine should have been bored with new pistons. So I got stuck with a bad engine and a basket case boat. Got a new engine and put it back without any legal means. This actually saved me money and I was able to get the boat in the water way before any court could make a ruling.

If one buys a boat without trying it out should at least hear it run before purchase. I know some of the anxiety of wanting something usually overcomes common sense to stay away from something that is showing signs of problems.

If anything, work along with the marina in trying to get the problems fixed. Sorry to hear about your luck and wish you good luck in getting the problem solved...........SS

 

[v1_0]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

hey nubster.
...

we had information (on the civil suit) you ran the boat for 4.5 hours before it failed.
can you please post the bill of sale so we all can see it didnt say "as is". That would change a lot of minds.

...

all of our responce on the the "sold a boat" thread is based on the "as is" clause

btw fyi.
I had harsh accusations about you.
i was also the one that suggested we all chip in money for CB's laywer.

Dude, this isn't the "kid that bought CB's" boat...

This boat is a 26' Islander. CB's was 20' I/O Cuddy Cabin-Imperial.

-V

 

[newbster]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

Dude, this isn't the "kid that bought CB's" boat...

This boat is a 26' Islander. CB's was 20' I/O Cuddy Cabin-Imperial.

-V

Correct, different deal entirely. This is a different angle on a similar situation.

Also, I bought the boat from 2200 miles away and could not get out that way to inspect it within that time frame hence I was dependent on the inspection for valuation.

 

[country_bumpkin]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

Sorry to hear about this newbster. Yes, an entirely different situation. You had the boat inspected! I agree with the above posts, it was not in the condition described when it was delivered, not like you could refuse delivery I guess. Wow...this sucks. You mind sharing how much $$ we're talking about?

 

[tmh]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

OK, I have a "not so understanding" take on this. Read any of the 100's of threads here about buying a used boat...."have a survey done"..."AT LEAST hire a mechanic to check out the power"....etc.

You said the SELLER took it to a marina, I assume the SELLER paid the marina. YOU did nothing to check the boat out at all. It seems you didn't even review the report from the marina until after the sale. At the least you could have spoken with the mechanic directly. Did they take it out for a test? I just don't see HOW the engine could be unstartable for you, yet they said it was OK!?!?!?!? Plus, that difference in compression would have been noticable without a compression test I would think.

I'm not sure you have any recourse against anyone. IF it was a DISHONEST seller I hope you winf up getting some help paying for the rebuild though....but it's hope, not "expect". I do feel for you though....what a kick in the teath.

People, think!!!!! HOW does the seller having the boat checked out protect YOU, the buyer???? It doesn't - not at all. No professional made any claims to YOU that YOU paid for. He was hired by the seller and has to answer only to the seller in all likelyhood.

Good luck.

 

[Hashi]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

Unfortunately, we all make mistakes in our lives. As the other posts states, I suggest you speak to the seller and marina to see if you three can't come to some sort of compromise. Make sure you document your conversations (date, time and what was said). If seller and marina won't budge, get at least two reports and estimates for its repairs from reputable repair shops. Then, I'm afraid, you'll have to take legal action in the state/county the transaction was made. Find out what the small claims limit is in your county and if its within the repair costs, you'll save $$$ on attorney's fees. The judge or judge's appointee may award you some money towards the repair but, I wouldn't expect the entire settlement. If what you posted is true, you'll need to name both, the seller and marina, as defendants. Nonetheless, you should consult with your attorney. If you can't afford an attorney, there are free legal services in most major cities.

Good luck!

 

[Nandy]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

No bill of sale? I dont think there is a state you can register a boat without a bill of sale. I cant even believe someone will buy a boat without a bill of sale to protect him from a stolen vessel. No bill of sale, did not check the boat yourself, did not employ anyone to do it for you, dude, sorry to say, you got what you asked for.
However, I think the fact you dont have a bill of sale might help you. The marina was not paid by you, I doubt you have a recurse against them. Go after the seller, he did not send you the boat he sold you. I dont see the as is clasuse here, even if he wrote it on his ad, it is not in the bill of sale because there is none.
good luck.

 

[dmcb]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

In some states, all is done on the title. The seller fills in the selling price, the buyer and address and signs it. The buyer signs it. Some require a notary, some not.
Nothing further required.
Doug

 

[newbster]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

The agreement was the inspection was to be paid for by him as a condition of the sale. This was my mistake as I'm forced to go after him instead of the marina alone. I called the manager of the marina and spoke to him directly. The marina manager told me the boat ran fine with great compression. He did not tell me what each cylinder was and I did not think to ask him. He was clearly making things up since the written report, which I received after the close of the deal did say either way. I had no reason to expect that the motor was clearly not good. A bill of sale is not required in many states if you transfer the title properly. I did speak to a couple attorneys and they told me that I have a clear case against the seller since he falsely enriched himself by receiving funds for something that was not what it was supposed to be. Intent is irrelevant. He also has recourse via the marina for failing to do what they were paid to do. Looks like a mess. Basically, I'm stuck. Either this guy steps up to the plate and works things out or I get to make the decision on whether to sue or not. Both attorneys say I'm entitled to a full re power so I'm stuck on spend the 1k to 1500 to get judgment then pursue for enforcement. Basically, it sucks for me no matter what as I would be perfectly happy to receive what I paid for but, essentially, the marina screwed both of us by being grossly incompetent.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

The agreement was the inspection was to be paid for by him as a condition of the sale. This was my mistake as I'm forced to go after him instead of the marina alone. I called the manager of the marina and spoke to him directly. The marina manager told me the boat ran fine with great compression. He did not tell me what each cylinder was and I did not think to ask him. He was clearly making things up since the written report, which I received after the close of the deal did say either way. I had no reason to expect that the motor was clearly not good. A bill of sale is not required in many states if you transfer the title properly. I did speak to a couple attorneys and they told me that I have a clear case against the seller since he falsely enriched himself by receiving funds for something that was not what it was supposed to be. Intent is irrelevant. He also has recourse via the marina for failing to do what they were paid to do. Looks like a mess. Basically, I'm stuck. Either this guy steps up to the plate and works things out or I get to make the decision on whether to sue or not. Both attorneys say I'm entitled to a full re power so I'm stuck on spend the 1k to 1500 to get judgment then pursue for enforcement. Basically, it sucks for me no matter what as I would be perfectly happy to receive what I paid for but, essentially, the marina screwed both of us by being grossly incompetent.

PM me with your phone number, this can be very simple.......Welcome to I-Boat's my fellow web foot..

 

[oops!]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

soooo sooory about the misunderstanding earlier
please fogive me all.

too many simalarities
and not enough sleep!

 

[tmh]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

Newbster, looks like you've laid out your current situation well. You made a mistake, no doubt. However, as you said you didn't get what you paid for - unlike the previous long thread where the boat was test-driven by the seller and buyer and worked fine then blew something when the buyer was alone.

How can you be sure it was not working properly at the marina? Seems pretty obvious stuff was wrong. Do you think they just didn't check much? Do you think the seller knew the issues and was scamming you? Had it been a long time since the boat was used?

Anyways, good luck to you. I wouldn't line a lawyer's pocket too much on this - just use them to write so letters to get the ball rolling. I'm sure the seller and marina don't want to waste $$$ on a lawyer either so maybe it can be resolved. I'd push for just giving the dude his boat back and you getting your money back.

 

[Andy in NY]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

No bill of sale? I dont think there is a state you can register a boat without a bill of sale. I cant even believe someone will buy a boat without a bill of sale to protect him from a stolen vessel. No bill of sale, did not check the boat yourself, did not employ anyone to do it for you, dude, sorry to say, you got what you asked for.
However, I think the fact you dont have a bill of sale might help you. The marina was not paid by you, I doubt you have a recurse against them. Go after the seller, he did not send you the boat he sold you. I dont see the as is clasuse here, even if he wrote it on his ad, it is not in the bill of sale because there is none.
good luck.

here in NY, all i need is the registration, signed by the PO. no bill of sale, no title (one was never issued for my boat - 1973)

Newbster, looks like you've laid out your current situation well. You made a mistake, no doubt. However, as you said you didn't get what you paid for - unlike the previous long thread where the boat was test-driven by the seller and buyer and worked fine then blew something when the buyer was alone.

How can you be sure it was not working properly at the marina? Seems pretty obvious stuff was wrong. Do you think they just didn't check much? Do you think the seller knew the issues and was scamming you? Had it been a long time since the boat was used?

Anyways, good luck to you. I wouldn't line a lawyer's pocket too much on this - just use them to write so letters to get the ball rolling. I'm sure the seller and marina don't want to waste $$$ on a lawyer either so maybe it can be resolved. I'd push for just giving the dude his boat back and you getting your money back.

i suggest you CONSULT a laywer, tell him your situation, and get a small bit of advice. then when you talk to the marina or the PO, mention "my lawyer suggested..."

usually just the word will give them a wake up call... but i wouldnt go around with a bunch of lawyer talk if you HAVENT ACTUALLY TALKED TO ONE!


good luck

 

[MrBigStuff]

Re: Bought a boat, motor is toast. Misrepresentation?

Very few places REQUIRE a bill of sale to transfer ownership. Hopefully, everyone reading this can see why it's in your interest to complete one anyway. Offers some protection to both the seller and buyer. Whether I'm buying or selling, I want a bill of sale stating the terms, date of transfer and signed by both parties. Where are you going to capture that information on the title? Last thing I want if there's a problem is the old he said, she said scenario because it's a verbal agreement. Amazing how stories change...