Bowrider to Catalina?

[tednv]

I have a '99 bayliner capri with a mercruiser 3.0, it's in good shape. I have a lot of equipment and plan on getting some extra equipment for the trip

Just wondering, how common it is for people to take 18' bowrider boats out to Channel Islands or Catalina and what your suggestions and recommendations might be

Have:
- bow cover
- firstaid
- handheld vhf (uniden floating)
- fixed vhf with builtin gps + dsc (standard horizon gx1700 w/ 4' Shakespeare)
- handheld backup gps (garmin etrex)
- hand operated bilge pump
- 3mil candlepower light

Might get:
- laser pointer or flares for signaling
- kicker bracket + 7-9 hp outboard
- second electric bilge pump (want to have dual pump setup)
- second battery? (not sure if there's room for it though)

Before anyone jumps in saying I shouldn't go unless I have a cuddy, please watch this video first:
29-mile Kayak trip to Catalina - YouTube

I know the most important thing will be the weather, what are the things to check for in the weather (wave frequency/wind/something else?) What is some additional equipment you think I will need? Also, I realize this topic has been discussed in the past, just wanted to get some advice on what to look out for and some suggestions which are missing in older threads. Technology has changed a bit in the last 5+ years as well... might be some new equipment that would be helpful? The idea of putting tow tube under bow cover to make it more solid from old post is definitely a good one (from old post)

Thank you for your help guys!

Ted

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

I wouldn't do it but then again I wouldn't base jump or ride a street luge in heavy traffic down a mountain either.

 

[Slip Away]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

Been covered many times here, rather than type a repeat, read :

http://forums.iboats.com/boat-topic...can-bowrider-used-ocean-calm-days-207164.html

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

I think you have everything you need except one thing: a seaworthy boat. You have a lake boat that has a dangerous design for open water. You have focused on safety equipment but the object is not to have to use it.

And never rely on a bow cover to protect you from seas too big for your boat. It's for rain and light spray.

Kayaks are much safer than sofaboats. Even an open 14' Whaler is safer. It's not length that matters; it's design.

 

[tednv]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

I appreciate your honest response, can you describe some of the features of the whaler that make it safer. What are some of the things that make a bowrider more dangerous in open water? I know whalers have taller sides, foam filled hulls, self bailing decks. Also relying on a single bilge pump is pretty dangerous (which is why I will have 2 and one hand operated one). I'm not talking about frequent fishing trips or going out in rough seas, just want to make sure that if I attempt it, I have as much equipment as I can have to make it safer. I have a fiberglass support pole under bow cover and it's held on with a ton of stainless snaps, I'm pretty sure it can take some water over the bow without coming off

I think you have everything you need except one thing: a seaworthy boat. You have a lake boat that has a dangerous design for open water. You have focused on safety equipment but the object is not to have to use it.

And never rely on a bow cover to protect you from seas too big for your boat. It's for rain and light spray.

Kayaks are much safer than sofaboats. Even an open 14' Whaler is safer. It's not length that matters; it's design.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

relying on a single bilge pump isn't what's dangerous; it's going out in a boat that's likely to swamp so bad that a single bilge pump can't handle it that's dangerous. If you're down to the hand pump, you're dead meat. Your flooded boat will have its motor snuffed out and batteries shorted.
Why? because the bow design scoops water into the cabin, and that water has to be diverted into the bilge and the boat's workings before it can be evacuated--by a tiny pump working against gravity instead of scuppers worknig with it. You don't have proper rails to deflect sea water away from the boat; you have stylish (to some, foolish to others) rounded rails that direct water in. You need a high bow with a spoon or flare to it; you have the opposite. I doubt your stern will do too well with following seas but I don't know about that aspect.


Just like how the low slung Corvette--a stylish car--can't be driven in soft sand, deep snow or over large rocks, your boat can't handle rough open water. it's not about the distance on a gentle day; it's about being caught out in a change of weather you can't outrun. And no, your electronics won't fix that, either.

 

[tednv]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

Thank you sir, I do appreciate the info. I looked into adding scupper drain + valve in the past for easier cleaning/ability to hose-down without going through the bilge, will get that one taken care of. Think i'm going to work on reinforced fiberglass bow cover to go under the sunbrella instead of the fiberglass bow for support. I also did a bunch of electrical work, sealing all the connectors with marine shrinkwrap and spraying over with neoprene with all the connectors. The battery is actually pretty high in the rear of the boat and I added a 90amp breaker to make sure it won't short. For scupper valves, looks like the pingpong ball type are best at keeping backflow from coming in, will have to do more research about placement but next to bilge fitting looks like a common place for them

Flow-Max

Thank you again for the advice, greatly appreciated!

relying on a single bilge pump isn't what's dangerous; it's going out in a boat that's likely to swamp so bad that a single bilge pump can't handle it that's dangerous. If you're down to the hand pump, you're dead meat. Your flooded boat will have its motor snuffed out and batteries shorted.
Why? because the bow design scoops water into the cabin, and that water has to be diverted into the bilge and the boat's workings before it can be evacuated--by a tiny pump working against gravity instead of scuppers worknig with it. You don't have proper rails to deflect sea water away from the boat; you have stylish (to some, foolish to others) rounded rails that direct water in. You need a high bow with a spoon or flare to it; you have the opposite. I doubt your stern will do too well with following seas but I don't know about that aspect.


Just like how the low slung Corvette--a stylish car--can't be driven in soft sand, deep snow or over large rocks, your boat can't handle rough open water. it's not about the distance on a gentle day; it's about being caught out in a change of weather you can't outrun. And no, your electronics won't fix that, either.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

you are FOOLING yourself... you CAN NOT MAKE THAT BOAT SAFE for the open sea short of putting it in a container on a cargo ship.

If you want to safely make such trips stop now, sell that boat, and buy one that will bring your friends and family home alive.

 

[OrangeTJ]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

I'm far from an expert, but I think you're getting good advice. Sometimes what we want to hear and what we need to hear are two different things. I've only been to Catalina once, and we went over on one of those big cat ferries. Weather was great when we left port and got significantly windier by the time we got to the island. I could see doing it in a stout self-bailing CC (like a Grady White) but I cannot imagine being out on that water in an 18 foot bowrider. We saw a handful of what appeared to be 25 - 28 foot cruisers on the passage and even they looked marginal to my untrained eye and it sure didn't look like whoever was on them could have been having much fun. I'm sure that if all the stars align and you have perfect conditions, it would be fine. Trouble is, if the conditions change for the worse, you're potentially in a very bad place and all of the gadgets in the world won't fix a 6 or 10 foot wave crashing over your bow...and then another one doing it again 10 seconds later. And then another one. No thanks!

 

[QC]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

Rule of thumb I always grew up with was 25' for Catalina. With that said, I have been over in a 21, 23 and 24 foot bowrider. All did fine, but it is not the size as many have stated, it is the design. If Catalina is what you plan to be doing, then buy something setup for that. And it is not gettign there that is the issue, it's getting back

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

Check in with SC Surffishing or bloodydecks with your question.

 

[h2odick]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

We have taken our boat to Catalina a couple of times, we're possibly planning to go with a group out there next month as a matter of fact (30+ boats ranging from mine being the smallest to 47') I've also been on a buddy's 21' Crownline to Catalina a couple times too.. Its doable..

That said, bowriders are definitely not the boat I'd want to have offshore on a regular basis. We've always gone with other people, and I take safety really seriously. If the weather is not good, and the frequent weather updates, skies, or seas aren't looking good, we aren't making the voyage. I'm in a pretty decent size bowrider, and we have felt safe each time. But, in an 18' bowrider.. If i was crazy, by myself with perfect seas and a few other boats/vessels goin with me.. I might make the trip in an somebody elses 18' bowrider, but not one I own or am otherwise responsible for

 

[tednv]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

Thanks for sanity check guys, its great to have a place for good advice. If the boat was a cuddy with a fiberglass enclosed bow and same size motor and scupper valves would it be ok or still unsafe because of 18ft size?

 

[QC]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

Closed bow and self bailing would be much safer.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

.... I looked into adding scupper drain + valve in the past for easier cleaning/ability to hose-down without going through the bilge, will get that one taken care of. Think i'm going to work on reinforced fiberglass bow cover to go under the sunbrella instead of the fiberglass bow for support....For scupper valves, looks like the pingpong ball type are best at keeping backflow from coming in, will have to do more research about placement but next to bilge fitting looks like a common place for them

!

don't go drilling holes and adding scuppers to a boat that wasn't designed for them. You can't convert your lake boat into a self-bailing coastal boat.
you don't understand the force and weight of a bow stuff; your home-made shelter will be washed away.

ping pong balls belong on land.

your wiring is how it should be done regardless, but that isn't going to stop green water from filling your boat.

you are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titantic. Stay home.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

Thanks for sanity check guys, its great to have a place for good advice. If the boat was a cuddy with a fiberglass enclosed bow and same size motor and scupper valves would it be ok or still unsafe because of 18ft size?

A closed bow makes no difference.... open bow is fine... a FACTORY self bailing deck designed to handle a couple thousand pounds of water crashing on it and a wide FLARED bow with a deep V below it would be much safer in the same size or even much smaller. a 10' open boat of the right design will do better than a 50' boat of the wrong design.

 

[MarkSee]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

QC is right on in post #10 the last sentence as those of us around here know, morning can be completely calm but by early afternoon 2 foot whitecaps blowin' and beating you up.

Best odds will be going over in the morning, staying the night then coming back the next morning.
Following a cattle boat won't hurt either.

You don't mention where you plan on launching from but Catalina and the Channel Islands would best be launched from different areas.
Catalina from Huntington/Long Beach/Newport and Channel Islands farther up North.

Just as an example, not sure if you were out this past Saturday around Huntington/Long Beach, but up until about 1:00 pm was very calm and we fished behind Oil Island with virtually no swells. Then the white caps started and we moved up to next to the Queen Mary.
About 3:00 heading back to Huntington, the swells were up, whitecaps abound, wind whipping and getting tossed around....in our 27 footer in that semi protected area.....can't imagine guys trying to come back from Catalina. You would have had a slow, hard run back that afternoon.

Mark

 

[tednv]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

Thank you for the tip about afternoons being more difficult to navigate! The boat spends pretty much all of its time on lake mead, yes I understand it is not an optimal coastal setup. If I went coastal fishing once a month or lived near the ocean would look into investing in something that is optimized for big waters. That said, I think if a bunch of people can make it in a kayak, I'm pretty sure with some adjustments I can make it across safely in an 18ft boat if I've got the right equipment and conditions are optimal. So what I got out of the replies above is having enclosed bow helps, doing it in the morning helps, self bailing helps, and lots of luck of course...

I just don't want to end up like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cSh8vXtg8A

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

no, more like this: notice how a boat like yours handles water over the bow. Notice how well the bilge pumps clear the water. Fail.
Sinking boat on the beach - YouTube

This is where you are dead wrong (pun intended): "That said, I think if a bunch of people can make it in a kayak, I'm pretty sure with some adjustments I can make it across safely in an 18ft boat if I've got the right equipment and conditions are optimal." Kayaks are designed for ocean travel; your boat is not. "If" is your flaw in reasoning.

Anyway, you are not really looking for advice, but reassurance that your wishful thinking will get you across. You have not found it here, and won't. There was a guy named "small boat lover" (dare I invoke the name?) who approached boating advice the same way.

 

[OrangeTJ]

Re: Bowrider to Catalina?

I don't understand the "if a bunch of people can make it in a kayak" comments. The type of kayak people would use for that trip is very seaworthy. Your statement is about the same as saying "If somebody on a little dirtbike can make it across that ravine, surely I'll be fine doing it in my minivan".