Buying a boat

[Shawnee]

I was wondering if it is possible to look up the USA registration of a boat to see who owns it. I am looking at a boat over the internet and it sounds good and the guy sounds(via email) good but being so far away, I would like to do as much research on the boat as I can. And then I would be exporting it to Canada so need to know that what I buy is his and is clear. All I seem to find with searches is agencies saying they can help me if I pay them or advice like "Be careful, and buyer beware" so I am trying to do that.

Any advice?

Thanks

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Buying a boat

Not really. There are companies that claim they can research a boat but, at a big price.

I would suggest you ask for a Hull Identification Number to check the year and manufacturer.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Buying a boat

I was wondering if it is possible to look up the USA registration of a boat to see who owns it.

Ayuh,... Each State is different, but generally, the answer is Nope...

 

[DuckHunterJon]

Re: Buying a boat

Not unless you have a friend in law enforcement.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Buying a boat

Just something to keep in mind, but title requirements are all over the place in the states. The title, trailer, and outboard can all have titles, and between 50 states, there are probably 50 different combinations of what is titled, registered, or ignored from a legal point of view. The reason I mention that is it might make it a little more difficult to register on your side if you don't get a title for the boat, simply because one doesn't exist for the state it came from.


(in my state, trailers can be titled but it is rarely done. They can be registered also, but only done if taking it out of state so not common. Outboards are ignored legally, and hulls are registered but it is impossible to actually title a hull.)

 

[Shawnee]

Re: Buying a boat

Sooooo, the boats all(most) have registration numbers on them. When a person buys a boat from another person ie not a dealer, is there a transfer process where the registration of the boat (including hull number) gets transferred to the new owner? I would have thought that as well as getting a receipt for monies paid, I would be getting a "transfer of ownership" paper (and the US Customs wants to see a paper or note indicating the boat is clear of liens) so basically, three pieces of paper. Does this sound right? I guess the previous post explains it but hard to fathom for me. Canadian government never seems to miss an opportunity to grab fees, taxes or just have their fingers in there.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Buying a boat

Sooooo, the boats all(most) have registration numbers on them.

Correct, not all boats do... Some are used exclusively on private lakes and never registered with the local officials... Its somewhat rare, but does happen. If the state is a title state, those are easy, seller signs the title. For registration only states on the hull, the registration card usually has a spot for the owner to sign, make sure that is signed off. You will also absolutely want to get a bill of sale signed by yourself and the seller. (very likely you can get an official government form to use for this, otherwise they may make you go back and get that signed by the seller.)

If you do happen to find a boat that isn't registered/titled, about the only thing you have to go on is the bill of sale. (which you should do no matter what, that is step #1 in any sale, irregardless of other documentation.)

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Buying a boat

Large boats are typically registered at the national level and I believe they can be searched. And there are companies like "car fax" which can give some info but it is not always reliable.

On a large enough transaction, part of your due diligence is the title search; sometimes its part of the survey.

For small boats you at least want to see the original (not copy) current titles in possession of the seller. In Virginia, that will be for the boat and the trailer. Can't speak to the bizarre system of titling motors. if there is a lien on them, usually the lender will have the physical title. So for a remote transaction you can start by having the seller email you scanned docs and then, at closing, verify the originals.

can't speak to interstate and international sales requirements, but our DMV surprised me by requiring both a signed title and a bill of sale for the trailer. Luckily I had both.

 

[mpdive]

Re: Buying a boat

I gotta ask this... Is this one of the EBAY/Craigslist deal that your looking at? Be very careful!! The man selling the boat is probably not the owner and is sitting in a nigerian internet cafe hoping you'll transfer him your life savings. They have ways of faking registrations. Be VERY CAREFUL!! Would you see this boat in person before buying it?

 

[bassman284]

Re: Buying a boat

As smokingcrater points out, it is pretty much a nightmare in the US.

There are 33 states that title boats but Mississippi has it as optional. All the titling states have a registration requirement of some sort. 16 states require registration only w/o title. That would leave 1 state requiring neither and I have not run the list to figure out which one that is.

The states that title each have different requirements as to what sort of boat requires a title and basically no two are the same. Age, length, power or sail might be factors. Registration requirements are generally more extensive and most title states will require registration of boats that would not require a title. Again, big differences state to state. States rights, baby!

I'll post a link from the South Carolina DNR which, for whatever reason, supplies the most comphrehensive, comprehensible and, more important, the most []accessible[/i] summary of requirements.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/boating/forms/pdf/statetitling06.pdf

You'll have to Google state by state for registration requirements for each state although I think generally "anything that floats" will probably pretty well cover it.

Also keep in mind that most (if not all) of the titling states allow optional titling of boats that do not fit the parameters of required titling. E.g., my boat is listed as being 16'10" which means it is not required to be titled in Iowa (title required on boats 17'0' and over). I titled it anyway figuring a $15,000 boat should have a title.

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Buying a boat

when its out of my area , and this especly true for craig list, I all ways tell them I will be in the area on such and such day and would like to look it over and I will be bringing cash, and if thier is no reply then you know its a scam

 

[The Famous Grouse]

Re: Buying a boat

I was wondering if it is possible to look up the USA registration of a boat to see who owns it. I am looking at a boat over the internet and it sounds good and the guy sounds(via email) good but being so far away, I would like to do as much research on the boat as I can. And then I would be exporting it to Canada so need to know that what I buy is his and is clear. All I seem to find with searches is agencies saying they can help me if I pay them or advice like "Be careful, and buyer beware" so I am trying to do that.

Any advice?

Thanks

In the case of boats and ownership, there is no such thing as "the USA registration". It's different in every state.

So what we really need to know are two things:

1. What state is the boat registered in now? Knowing that will dictate what (if any) title or proof of ownership should exist for the boat and for other items like a trailer and possibly the outboard.

Tell us the state and chances are we can tell you what documentation the seller should have.

Now the problem is that many boat owners are quite stupid when it comes to knowing or remebering if their boat, trailer, or motor has a title and if so where is it. Many times they foget that the even have a title or they think it's unimportant. Big mistake.

The second problem is that many boat owners forget to have the "security interest" taken off of the title when they pay off the loan. This causes endless hassle because if a "security interest" is listed on the title, it means that legally it cannot be transferred until the loan is paid and the security iterest is removed so the title is "free and clear".

2. What is required on the Canadian side to transfer ownership to your name?

If it's as simple as a signed bill of sale describing the boat/motor/trailer, then it should be fairly easy.

HOWEVER. You still want proof that the boat is owned legally and free and clear by the seller. If you buy a boat that has a security interest--in other words the seller still owes money on it--then you're essentially buying stolen property because the seller did not have the right to sell it because it wasn't completly his.

Grouse

 

[Shawnee]

Re: Buying a boat

That is a ton of information. Thanks. I have requested a couple of different photos from the selller than what I have had.ie he has to actually have the boat to take them for me. It is a Craigslist item, in Minnesota. I have had a couple of run ins with the Nigerian scenario over the years, both on the buying side and the selling side. No damage done though. Maybe that is what is keeping me leary.

As I mentioned, the guy sounds good and it is probably me just being overly suspicious but thought I would try to find out as much as I could. I spoke with the border patrol and they said, "We don't export boats" which means that they don't care really so I do not even have to stop there on the way out. Sounds strange as, as you say, it could have a lien on it. As the purchase date gets closer, I will insist on a copy of some sort of lien check and receipt.

Thanks to all of you for all of the information and advice.

In Canada, boats are registered at the National level so there is only one process, Canada wide.

 

[Bamaman1]

Re: Buying a boat

You've got to be very careful purchasing any item off the internet. I would first find out where the boat is registered, and check online to see what the boat laws are in that state--is it a title state?

If it's not a title state, the chances are that any boat financed will be secured by a UCC-1 Financing Statement filed with their State Secretary of State. A UCC-1 is a bank/financial institution's notice to the public that they are holding a first priority lien on the collateral. Someone wanting to find out if there's a lien would file a UCC-11 Request for information in the buyers' name--to find out if there is a lien filing. If a boat had a lien filing with the Secretary of State, you would need to contact the lienholder to verify whether the loan is outstanding or if it's been paid off.

You would need to verify the name on the boat registration, verify the name and address of the person that's offering the boat--and make sure they're the same person. Sometimes, you've also got to research ownership through the original boat dealership--to verify the boat was paid for with cash.

This is all a hassle, however it's the only way to make sure some big burley repo man (with tattoos) doesn't come into your backyard on Friday night and haul away "the bank's" boat.

The same procedures can also apply to farm and construction equipment, ATV's and other items purchased on the internet that are relatively new or expensive. Last week, I purchased 2 used ATV's, and I wouldn't deal with the owner without inspecting titles that were released by Honda Credit--so I'm safe.

 

[the vision]

Re: Buying a boat

Give the reg.# to wildlife agent the can tell you alot.

 

[The Famous Grouse]

Re: Buying a boat

That is a ton of information. Thanks. I have requested a couple of different photos from the selller than what I have had.ie he has to actually have the boat to take them for me. It is a Craigslist item, in Minnesota. I have had a couple of run ins with the Nigerian scenario over the years, both on the buying side and the selling side. No damage done though. Maybe that is what is keeping me leary.

As I mentioned, the guy sounds good and it is probably me just being overly suspicious but thought I would try to find out as much as I could. I spoke with the border patrol and they said, "We don't export boats" which means that they don't care really so I do not even have to stop there on the way out. Sounds strange as, as you say, it could have a lien on it. As the purchase date gets closer, I will insist on a copy of some sort of lien check and receipt.

Thanks to all of you for all of the information and advice.

In Canada, boats are registered at the National level so there is only one process, Canada wide.

As it happens, Shawnee, I'm in Minnesota. So. . .

Motorized watercraft greater than 16 feet in length must have titles in MN. There are a few exceptions for old boats made , but almost universally if it's motorized, greater than 16 feet, and registered in MN and was made since 1979, it must have a title.

If it has a title, there is a space on the title for the selling owner to "sign over" or transfer the title by signing their name. Be aware that if both a husband and wife are listed on the title, both must also sign to reassign the title.

If the boat you're looking at DOES have a title, make sure the title does NOT list a "security interest" anywhere on the title.

If it doesn't have a title, you can at least protect yourself by asking to see the "registration card". This is a card sent with the registration sticker that must be placed on the boat. It shows the owners name and address. Obviously, if this does not match the seller's name and address, it's a red flag.

Trailers are a bit sticky. If it's more than a single axle AND over a certain weight, it will also have a seperate trailer title.

Otherwise, again, ask to see the "registration card". Same as the boat, it should list the owner's name.

There are no seperate titles for outboard motors in MN.

Regardless of if titles are involved or not, you should always get a bill of sale from the seller that lists:

1. Full legal name and address (printed)
2. Phone number
3. Accurate and detailed description including hull ID number, model number of the outboard, serieal number of the outboard, serieal number of the trailer, etc. It should read something like this:

1999 White Alumacraft Lunker, 16 foot in length, hull ID number ALU9966893156, etc, etc.

4. Signature and date of sale.
5. Sale price.

As I said, make CERTAIN there is no security interest listed on the title. If there is and the seller claims that the loan was paid in full, the seller MUST get the security interest removed so the title is "free and clear". Make it clear to him that he won't be able to sell the boat to anyone if the title mess isn't cleared up, it's not just you, he won't be able to worm out of it with another buyer either.

PM me if you'd like more info.
Grouse

 

[Shawnee]

Re: Buying a boat

Turns out the boat is registered in Wisconsin, not MN but seller is in MN. I think it just means that the boat was first registered in WI?

Decided to let it go at this time but have this info for next time. Thanks

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Buying a boat

Some US boats ARE registered nationally but usually the large 'certificated' yachts

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Buying a boat

If it has a title, there is a space on the title for the selling owner to "sign over" or transfer the title by signing their name. Be aware that if both a husband and wife are listed on the title, both must also sign to reassign the title.

There is a footnote to that... Legally, it depends if there is an 'or' or 'and' between their name. AND absolutely means both (or power of attorney for the respective person) must sign. OR allows either to sign, without the others permission or knowledge.