Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

[larboc]

I'm suspect that my fuel pump is not building enough pressure. Does anyone sell a rebuild kit? I'd need the double diaphragm and the valves. $150 for the whole pump is crazy when I can get a new automotive one for $15. Modern replacements are all sealed anyway so if they leak they would just go in the crank case and I'd notice it right away. I'd probably just replace it once every two years for that price anyway.

Thoughts?

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

Buy the correct marinized fuel pump, it is USCG requirement.

 

[daydreamer1252]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

Does the OEM pump have the fitting for the clear tube to dump into the carb airhorn? My understanding is that a lot of older units were not originally equipped this way. If not I don't know how you could hook up a later USCG approved system....would require a new carb and etc.

Just my thoughts......

 

[Maclin]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

The description the OP gave regarding the dual diaphragms indicate the OEM pump on his has the clear hose provision.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

The original units used a sight glass on the pump to show the ruptured diaphragm, which is still acceptable. However, you don't need a new carb to make the change to the clear hose. The have hose barbs that attach to the flame arrestor which allow the fuel to pass through the arrestor into the throat of the carb. In any case, it's usually $90-100 for a mechanical fuel pump anyway, so an extra $40 for the marine unit isn't entirely outrageous. On the flip side, how do you know it's the fuel pump causing your issue? You might install a fuel pressure gauge before you go changing the pump on a whim.

 

[daydreamer1252]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

Maclin and haulnazz thanks for the education......I was not aware that double diaphragms meant that it was equipped with the "hose".....I had also not seen adapter equipment of the type mentioned to route the "leak" through the flame arrestor....thanks again

 

[larboc]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

The original units used a sight glass on the pump to show the ruptured diaphragm, which is still acceptable. However, you don't need a new carb to make the change to the clear hose. The have hose barbs that attach to the flame arrestor which allow the fuel to pass through the arrestor into the throat of the carb. In any case, it's usually $90-100 for a mechanical fuel pump anyway, so an extra $40 for the marine unit isn't entirely outrageous. On the flip side, how do you know it's the fuel pump causing your issue? You might install a fuel pressure gauge before you go changing the pump on a whim.

I don't know where you're shopping. $23 at carquest and it's a sealed pump. If it does leak it goes in the crankcase. Even if I replace it every year as PM it would be less expensive and more reliable than a marine pump. I have gone through the entire rest of the fuel system and every thing holds suction and appears to be in great shape.
The fuel pump's valves have corrosion in them and there is a little checking around the diaphragms. I also don't know the history on it and I'd rather be safe than sorry.

The motor has been starving of fuel after awhile of sustained high load running and the only thing I haven't found in perfect shape is the fuel pump. All new lines and clear inline filters from tanks to selector, new transfer lines, verified vent lines are clear, steel can fuel filter flows through fine, all steel lines blow through fine, float needle is in good shape, float is free flowing and in good shape, and fuel trickles out the overflow port in the bowl at idle. (Holley)

As far as being uscg approved, I'll paint it black and spend the money on something else that will actually help safety.

 

[daydreamer1252]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

larboc, are you sure your not a native of the U.P.? Sounds like all the people from "beyond the bridge" that I have known.....native to Flint myself.....not that I disagree with your thinking......hurry though only about 2 weeks left before winterizing time....enjoy

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

Most of the automotive fuel pumps I've seen are around $80-100. You also shouldn't have any "clear inline filters" in between the tank and the water/fuel separator. I assume you mean the clear-plastic fuel filters, and the jarring that boats normally take on the water can crack those filters and send fuel pouring into the bilge. Again, you can do as you wish, but the fuel pumps are marinized for a reason. I hope you realize the crank case is being filled with raw fuel before it thins out the oil or becomes so full that it comes out of the dip stick tube.

 

[Grub54891]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

Even if I replace it every year as PM it would be less expensive.

Yeah replace it every year........Sounds like you are not going to keep the boat, the next guy may not know what you did,and end up with a bown engine due to fuel in the watered down oil! If you plan on keeping it it's going to cost the same if not more if you are replacing every year. Gee wilikers.
My 2cents....Grub

 

[larboc]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

The pump I got ended up having a weep hole in it so I tapped it for 12-24 and ran a line up to the carb instead of using the original glass bowl indicator. You guys happy now?

As far as the jarring of a boat breaking a plastic filter goes, that's pretty thin logic. Just because they are plastic they are going to break? They are on the suction side anyway. I've used them in applications that jar a lot harder than a boat and never had a problem. Newer marine fsm's are plastic, are those going to fail too?

I worked at mercury marine engineering for long enough to know what "marinized" means when it comes to mercruiser components btw. I understand the reasoning behind wanting to safely handle a fuel pump failure which is why I routed to the carb.

As far as it costing more to replace an automotive pump every year as P.M. goes, for the $23 this pump costs me, I can replace it for 5 years every spring for what a marine pump will cost that I doubt will last that long.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

Well I'm glad you don't work for Merc anymore, as you seem to disagree with everything that they deem as "safe" per the USCG. The plastic filters issue is specifically identified in USCG regs, but you know more than they do apparently.

 

[larboc]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

Well I'm glad you don't work for Merc anymore, as you seem to disagree with everything that they deem as "safe" per the USCG. The plastic filters issue is specifically identified in USCG regs, but you know more than they do apparently.

Really? Where? All I see is that inline filters must be mounted, not just supported by the line. Which mine are.
Also, I don't see where it says a fuel pump must have failure detection, but I would hope that one is there somewhere.

edit: I see many types of plastic filters for sale out there, west marine sells moellers in particular.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

I do not have access to the regs at the moment, but the reasoning behind the plastic restriction is because of the melting point of plastic under the motor cover. This applies to inboard and I/o application, but not outboard s . The filters you are seeing are likely not for your application. Metal filters are permitted.

 

[04fxdwgi]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

I do not have access to the regs at the moment, but the reasoning behind the plastic restriction is because of the melting point of plastic under the motor cover. This applies to inboard and I/o application, but not outboard s . The filters you are seeing are likely not for your application. Metal filters are permitted.

Agree w/ haulnazz15 100% on this. On gasoline engine installs, no plastic fuel system parts in an enclosed engine space is allowed by Coast Gaurd between the fuel tank and the carb / injector connection. Must be all metal or USCG approved flame retardant rubber hoses before the fuel pump and all metal after the fuel pump. Fuel fiters w/ plastic see thru parts are allowed only outside of engine spaces, usually outboard installs. Inside engine space only full metal fuel filters are allowed. You can Google it.

Oh yeah, the fuel pump for my 7.4 from MC is around a buck sixty, but Airtex makes that and the Carter pumps and was had (the marine version) from Rock Auto for forty six bux. Look hard enough and you can find anything you need. Also try looking in Jegs or Summit racing. They supply marine version Holley and Carter fuel pumps.

 

[larboc]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

I'll have to dig into it a little more to find the law. That still doesn't make sense to me though. I have a plastic gas tank and plastic/rubber lines but I can't use a plastic filter?
The filters are right at the top of the tanks, in a separate compartment that is bulkheaded off from the engine compartment. Does that make a difference in the law? I still want to see this written out as I don't see it in any of the regs I'm finding on the internet. And a simple adapter allowed me to keep the OE steel fuel line from the pump to the carb. The rest of my fuel system is either stainless or rubber fuel line.
I would prefer to keep the clear fuel filters for "at a glance" I.d. of water or other contaminants in the fuel tanks but if it's a blatent violation of the law and something I'll get a ticket for I'll loose them.
I still don't see anywhere that a fuel pump must have provisions for a failure overflow.

 

[04fxdwgi]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/fuel_standards_partl.aspx

Here are some of the regs..

Fuel filters, strainers, and their connections must withstand a 2-1/2 minute fire test conducted as described in 183.590. "... Took me 5 seconds to google "USCG regulations on fuel systems" Never seen a plastic piece withstand 2 1/2 minutes fire test, myself. The rubber fuel line hoses must be Approved type A1 fire retardant hose

I suppose that if one wants to split hairs and say this is for builders and not individuals that don't care what builders need to do, then I guess it's up to one's interpretation. BUT, fuel filters with the plastic bowls are specifically labled that they are not approved for use within the engine compartment of an inboard / IO boat. All I know is that when the CG Marine Inspector sees a plastic fuel component within an engine compartment of a gasoline fueled water craft, the operator will be cited. Have seen it happen.......

I, for one, will follow the requirments for builders and caution labels placed upon the components / thier packaging, only using approved components, just play it safe. And I'll bet a pay check that if a fire / explosion happens and plastic components are found to be installed where they aren't supposed to be, there may be a problem w/ insurance company and one may have a hard time trying to defend against a law suite from owners of other boats that may have been damaged as a result of said fire / explosion, if one happens. Easy call for me.....

If the plastic components are not in the engine compartment, then the whole point of the replies is moot..

 

[larboc]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

Bummer, I'll swap them out with metal ones. I don't follow the logic, but I'm sure it's in place for a reason.

 

[04fxdwgi]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

Oh yeah, the fuel pump sight tube: CG calls it a "Stripper Tube" ( I thought it meant something else :facepalm.
Single diaphram pumps use a "Stripper Tube" to the carb. Dual diaphrams can use a glass (heat resistant like Pyrex) sight glass.

http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/pdf/_GIFS_FUEL/FUEL-F11.gif

 

[larboc]

Re: Can I rebuild a '73 888 ford 302 fuel pump?

I just re-read your reply there, and no the filters are not in the engine compartment. They are with the tanks.

And I don't have insurance and am never close to any other boats, especially ones that have insurance.

I've got a "stripper" tube on my single diaphragm fuel pump so in reality I'm up to spec? I thought all marine pumps were dual diaphragm no matter if they had the tube or sight glass but this looks like that isn't the case.