Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

[FastFission]

I just got my port hub off the trailer today. It looks like there's some pitting corrosion on the bearings. It also looks like the bearing races on the hubs are pitted. There's some pitting on the spindle as well. I think it shouldn't be a problem for the bearings, since the inner races are part of the bearing. It looks to me like the biggest problem is all the pitting on the part of the hub where the grease seal runs. That was my big clue about the bearings, since the hubs were spitting grease all over the bottom of the boat.

I was wondering what my chances are of cleaning the seal area up well enough to get the seals to work with these spindles. I know the hub is gone, but I'm thinking about a new brake kit with hubs anyway.

Thanks,

Carl

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

You can get repair sleeves that drive onto the spindle where the seal rides. I've had good luck with them. I tried to find them here on iboats but not having luck. Search National redi-sleeve or just spindle repair sleeve. I would image the correct size is out there. Might even check with your favorite local auto parts store.

 

[T_Herrod]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

Clean the spindle and seal area with emery cloth. Get a speedi sleeve to renew the seal area. You will have to measure the seal area with a micrometer to get an accurate reading. Those bearings and races look to be junk so replace them and put in new seals and you should be good to go. Happy boating and good luck.

 

[SteveMcD]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

Speedisleeves did the trick for me too. Bearings are too cheap to NOT replace. I stopped using those bearing buddy covers. They seem designed to retain water. Every time I take one off, it has rusty water in it.

 

[FastFission]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

Just to be clear, I already figured that the bearings and hubs are junk. The trailer didn't have bearing buddies when I got it, and the oil seals are toast, so it's pretty obvious that water got into the hubs.

On a positive note, I was surprised that the hub came right off without an issue. It looks like the wear sleeves are the way to go. I'm pleased to see I probably don't need to trash the axle.

I hadn't thought of the bearing buddy covers retaining water. I do like them for general storage (keeping the dust off). I may just pull the covers when I'm launching and retrieving, and let things dry before I put them back.

I did find info on the bearings and seals for the Dexter hubs. I think if I just find the right OD sleeves, I can just emery the oil seal area until the sleeves fit.

Thanks

carl

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

You don't have to replace the hubs. You drive out the outeer bearing races and press in new ones. Take them along when you buy the bearings. Most auto stores will do that for you for a small fee. If you have drift punch you can drive them out yourself. You do need to fabricate or buy a bearing driver to install the races squarely. I made mine out of a pipe coupling.

 

[bigdee]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

Hard to tell from just looking but it don't look too bad. You need to mic all three diameters for size and make sure they are concentric. If the seal surface is too rough to be cleaned up you can buy a kit that slips over the old surface.

 

[louiefl]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

You don't have to replace the hubs. You drive out the outer bearing races and press in new ones. Take them along when you buy the bearings. Most auto stores will do that for you for a small fee. If you have drift punch you can drive them out yourself. You do need to fabricate or buy a bearing driver to install the races squarely. I made mine out of a pipe coupling.

I used a dremel and a cutoff blade to cut through one side of rhe old outer races after I knocked them out of the hub with a screwdriver. Grease the bore and the outer race OD, and then start by tapping in with a 2x4. Then put the old slotted bearings on top of the new bearings, add a 2x4 and carefully tap into place. I used a large socket (1-1/2") to tap on once the bearing was seated in the race. The old slotted race pulls out with finger pressure and will not get stuck in the hub bore.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

That spindle is junk. The sealing area is pitted and if the bearings are turning on the spindle you have more problems than you think.
By the time you buy speedi sleeves and rebuild the spindles you could have bought a new axle, complete with hubs.
I bought a 2500lb axle on sale for $115. It took and afternoon to cut and weld the perches on.
Speedi sleeves can be upwards of $45 each.

 

[FastFission]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

Louiefl, thanks for the info on the hubs. It wasn't apparent to me that the outer races were separate parts. I'm still thinking about installing trailer brakes while I'm here, but I'm not going to rush too much. The studs are pretty buggered up, so it may be better to buy new hubs anyhow, but I'm still considering all the options

Ricohman, So far, I don't think the bearings are spinning on the spindle. The bearings still actually spin pretty well, with just a little bearing rumble (with the pitting, they are definitely not worth putting back, however. I mic'ed the bearing bosses and they're within .002" (1.060 and 1.375) (although there are a couple of pits), The seal area mics out to 1.717, which is pretty good, but the pitting is obviously going to kill a new set of seals. Due to thunderstorms today (and having to retrieve my son's broken car), I haven't checked the other side, but I'm going to check both out before I decide what to do.

I did find the right size speedi-sleeve for $23 each on Amazon, and I am also looking at some pretty good prices for axles on Champion Trailer, so it looks like I've got a bunch of options.

I really appreciate all the help.

Thanks,

Carl

 

[FastFission]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

Well, I got the second hub off this evening. The bearings are actually pretty good on this one. The spindle seems pretty decent as well.

I also noticed that, not only are the wheels different, but the hubs are different, and the spindle welds look slightly different. It's pretty obvious that the PO had to replace the whole works on one side. There's no apparent drag damage, so it must not have been a total loss while driving.

Both spindles seem to mic at just the right dimensions, maybe .005 low on the first hub at the seal area.

I do have a few more questions.

How tight a fit should the bearings be on the spindle? They seem to be a tight sliding fit on both sides (no slop, but they slide on easily)?

Has anyone used the Bearing Buddy spindle seals? That looks like a better and easier idea than speedi-sleeves, but I'm not sure of the down side. They appear to just go in on the inner side of the inner bearings and provide a nice face seal rather than a standard oil seal.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

It looks like the bearings are turning on that spindle, which is not good.
The sealing surface is also very poor. A new seal will not last long and will not keep water out. As you said before you need to put a sleeve on those spindles. But the bearings appear to be turning and there is pitting on the surface that the bearings ride. You can dimple the spindle with a pointed punch to keep the bearings from turning but this is only a temporary fix.
I would buy a new axle and be done with it. I bought my 2500lb for $115.

 

[nlain]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

The bearings should be a slip fit to the spindle, you should be able to slide them on and off with just the fingers. If they go on and wiggle on the spiindle you have a problem with wear on the mounting surface. When you get the speedy sleeve you should get the kit that has sleeve and seal so they match up.

 

[maproy99]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

If you had water in your buddy bearing, it was not properly filled to hold 3-4 psi of grease. The buddy bearing only slows down the water intrusion and only works if you use it exactly how it is said to be used. Fill as much space up when repacking is done, and fill the buddy bearing until it moves out a bit. Always check the buddy bearing to see if you need to add more grease to keep to pressure, as the grease will work it's way into air pockets and the air will be forced out of the hub, losing pressure inside the hub.

 

[FastFission]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

I agree that the bearings have been turning on the spindle, but the fit between the bearings and spindles seems just about right, at least from what I can tell. The bearings go on easily, and there's no apparent slop in the fit. The bearings do look kind of cheap (made in Mexico, no brand, bearing numbers poorly applied and nearly illegible, etc.). The second hub spindle still shows some machining marks and there's really no pitting, and the fit on both sides appears about the same. Since both sides seem to have the right dimensions by micrometer, I'm wondering if cheap bearings are the issue. I guess I need to do a bit more thinking about that. I can get a speedi sleeve that will fit with just a bit of work with some emery cloth, and be within about .020 on the original seal diameter. I think the seal would tolerate that amount of increase on the diameter.
The bearing buddy seals do look like they might be a better idea than trying to get the lip seals and speedi-sleeves to work, and they are about 1/3rd the price, so I'm also going to think about that a bit more. It looks like I just need to match those to the inner bearing.

I've only had the boat since last fall, and only launched twice, so the water in the hub was with the PO. The boat didn't have bearing buddies before, and I added those last fall, but didn't have time to pull apart the hubs before winter hit. As it turns out, the back-side seals were completely shot (along with the sealing surface. That became pretty obvious after my first trip out, when I got grease all over the bottom of the boat.

The axles are galvanized drop axles, and I haven't found replacements yet under about $250. I'm thinking that if I do decide to do something about the spindles, it may be a better idea to have the local trailer shop weld some new spindles in. I really think the PO did that on at least one of the spindles already, since the welds look different and the spindles seem to have some minor differences as well. I may also just peen the bearing areas just a bit, and see if I can get a couple more years out of the old girl. I'll probably do a clean and inspect on the hubs every couple of years, so that might be an acceptable way to go. I'm thinking about spending a bit of money on surge brakes, and I need to do some lights and other fixes as well, so the spring budget is a bit stretched.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

If you had water in your buddy bearing, it was not properly filled to hold 3-4 psi of grease. The buddy bearing only slows down the water intrusion and only works if you use it exactly how it is said to be used. Fill as much space up when repacking is done, and fill the buddy bearing until it moves out a bit. Always check the buddy bearing to see if you need to add more grease to keep to pressure, as the grease will work it's way into air pockets and the air will be forced out of the hub, losing pressure inside the hub.

A seal does not know the difference between air and grease pressure. If you need grease to hold pressure in the hub you have a seal problem. Fix the problem. Pumping the hub full of grease isn't the solution.

 

[FastFission]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

I guess the final answer to this thread is "no". The weather was a bit better today (between snow showers) and I got a better look at the spindles. The first spindle has a couple of pretty good gouges, apparently from the previous bearing failure. They're deep enough that I think this is the last straw. The local trailer shop charges $90 per spindle for replacement, and it looks like about $200 with shipping for an new axle with SST wear bushings, so I think it's time to go axle shopping.

Thanks for the help.

Carl

 

[ricohman]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

I am sure you will find an axle for under $200 if you shop around.
Then you will be good for many years of trouble free towing.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Can I save these spindles (with pics)?

I think that you will be happier with a new axle, new bearings and new spindles. You will know the history and can maintain the trailer in any way you wish now, maybe not the cheapest route but the piece of mind will be worth much more...