Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

[Manipulator]

Finally got my ball gear off the shaft in the intemediate. Had to torch it to bust it free. Got the new one on and used my impact wrench to tighten. I probably got it to about 60 ft/pounds and it calls for 90-100 ft/pounds. My compressor is too wimpy to tighten any more. I am having a hard time trying to hold this thing and use my torque wrench to tight to specs. I do not have the special tool the manual speaks of to hold it. I have tried to use my vice and am afraid I will damage the new ball gear. Actually broke the damn vice trying to hold it! Any ideas?

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

First, you now have to take the nut back off. If you didn't use loctite, apply loctite to clean threads. If you did use loctite, it has now hardened and torque readings won't mean anything at this point.
I just jam a pry bar in the ball gear or something- piece of wood.... whatever is laying on the bench.

 

[Lyndy]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

I have one of them doohickies, ball gear holder wrench thingys. Would you like to borrow it?

 

[Manipulator]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

I used loctite on it, just the nut threads. I think my manual said to do the splines too, I missed that. Lyndy, thanks so much for the offer. I really need it like today so I will have to decline for now. Trying to get this baby on the water soon. Thanks for the pciture, gives me an idea. I might be able to come up with something that will work. If not, I would love to borrow it. I let you know how it all turns out. Off to Home Depot for a new vice.

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

Get it apart and clean the dried loctite off properly or you'll have a failure.
100 foot pounds aint that tight. It's like lug nut tight.
Could probably just stick a piece of wood in the w/p belt. I mean really....it takes 40 ft lbs to roll the engine over. how tight are you going on this thing to break a vice - check your torque wrench before you break something.

 

[Manipulator]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

I tried to loosen the ball gear assembly that comes out of the IM. Like I said, I had it all together and used loctite. That stuff must be strong because I cannot budge it. I'm afraid to heat it as I don't want it to get too hot and trash my new seals. I took the time to do this so I want to do it right. I guess I will heat it, get it apart and clean like you said, then try to torque it to specs. I had it in the vice pretty tight, enough to break the vice and its a pretty heavy duty vice, not a small one. Cast iron piece of crap really. Second one I have broke. A Kobalt from lowes. Don't buy one, complete crap. Went to home depot and bought a monster vice today. hope it holds.

 

[Manipulator]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

Oh I didn't even use the torque wrench first round. I use my air impact wrench and with my compressor it tops out about 60-70 ft/lbs. I tested it before so I know that is about all she will go. Then I tried the torque wrench to torque. I tighten the vice and it snapped. The vice broke from me tightning the shaft to hold it, not from me trying to torque it. hope that clears things up.

 

[fendersfender]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

personally, i think its tight enough....kepp messin' with it and you'll need new seals, again...good luck

 

[Manipulator]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

Thats what my thoughts were. I did manage to loosen it and I did it right. Got it torque to 100ft/pounds. The hard one to do is the other ball gear, its harder to hold. and coated the splines and the threads with loctite.

Question, here is the picture of the retainer on the upper unit where the ball gear attaches. There is a channel just in front of the bearing race. the manual said to push the seals all the way to the race. If you do, you cover this passage which looks to be an oil passage. The manual says nothing about this channel but it does connect (look at the pic) to an upper channel above the bearing race. Looks to me like it allows oil to get to the front of the bearing. I left it unblocked. Any thoughts?

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

I wouldn't worry about covering that passage. Nothing needs lubrication on the back side of a bearing race.....

 

[Manipulator]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

I left it open, I'm pretty sure it was open when I took the originals out. I don't see how it could hurt leaving it open or closed.

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

That bearing race in your pic is toast. The rollers should ride in the center of the race. Looks like there has been too little preload.

 

[Manipulator]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

I'm pretty new to all this, I didn't even notice. It seems to rotate fine without any slack left to right or in or out. Its together now and I am not taking it apart again. The drive has 750 hours and I believe the previous owner had that bearing replaced. The place/mechanic he used sucked. They also tore the crap out of the seal race (retainer?) that is deep in the IM. I notice this when the I removed the seals. I was getting lube in the bilge, now I know why. Also, they changed the impeller but didn't bother changing the pump housing and they reused all the old dryed out seals. The damn thing was blowing water into the upper unit and the pump shaft was rusted and is toast. I order a new one. Also, they stripped out three of the holes that hold the trunnion bearing in place (two on one side and one on the other). I noticed they fixed with heli-coil inserts. I am leery torquing to specs. Now back to the bearing race, I noticed on the diagram in my manual there was a shim, but none there when I took the housing off. Could this be the problem? If I blow the bearing I'm going to buy the whole assembly and not mess with putting another race and bearing in. I don't have the tools to do that. As far as the trunion caps, should I use high strength loctite when putting it back together or is that a bad idea as I may have to yank the drive again at some point.

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

Bearing Preload and gear clearances are critical. Just throwing it together without doing the proper setting of clearances and bearing load is not a good idea.
These are high speed/high power units turning 4000+ RPM. It doesn't take more than a few minutes to destroy all internals if not set up right.

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

As far as the trunnion caps go....I'm not sure. Intermediate housings are so cheap and plentiful, I'd probably change it out. There's some comfort in the fact that the trunnion caps don't have much pull when in forward.....the drive pushes the boat....
I'd try torquing them to spec. If they hold, they hold. If they don't - new intermediate.

 

[Manipulator]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

I looked at another photo and I will try to upload it. The bearing race looks like it is riding in the center on another photo. At least it does to me. But then again, what hell do I know? I'm a chiropractor, not a mechanic. I am planning on looking through my manual tonight. See what it says with regard to the rolling torque test and preload and all that. Hell, I'm just trying to make it to the water and you keep ruining it for me! Seriously, thank you for your help.

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

It's hard to evaluate bearings from pictures... I guess that silver area could be a reflection? The bearing looks slightly blue/straw brown to me too which would mean it got hot enough to affect the heat treating - again - it's a picture. Timken might have some analysis stuff on their website - they used to have a great bearing book with awesome pics in it.

 

[Lyndy]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

If you have an OEM Manual they do talk about the Rolling Torque Test and Preload.

 

[Manipulator]

Re: Can some one help me with my balls? or rather nuts?

Here is another view, you're right, looks to have gotten a little hot. The bearing looks good. I bet when the previous owner had this replaced the mechanic probably did not change out the race. The previous owner did say he had a bearing go bad. I bet this was the one. It does look to be riding in the center but I agree, hard to tell with pics. May have to investigate this further. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.