Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

[andyandy]

I am finishing an ourdrive service on my '84 Alpha 1. Replaced the bell housing (cracked),shift cable, all bellows, water hose, tube, and grommet, entire water pump, and lower shift shaft bushing. I did not touch anything else in the lower unit except a new water pump and shift shaft bushung.
Now after installing the new water pump I cannot turn the lower unit drive shaft by hand. The drive shaft moves a few degrees in each direction and stops. I can shift between forward, neutral, and reverse, and the prop shaft turns accordingly, but the drive shaft won't budge. I'm hesitant to mate the lower to upper without being able to turn the drive shaft. Should I be concerned? Or is it normal behavior? Thanks

 

[Bondo]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

Ayuh,.... Did ya soap up the impeller,..??

If could just be it, draggin' in it's housing... but it should turn...

 

[ENSIGN]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

Pour some vegetable oil in to the water pump housing and turn the shaft clockwise.Installing a impeller dry can turn in to a disaster.

 

[andyandy]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

Thanks for the tips. The drive shaft did turn by hand after separating the lower unit, before I removed the old water pump, but it would not turn with the old water pump base removed. Then I took a break from the work for a couple of weeks (ordered shift shaft bushing and tool), so the lower unit sat for a while (covered and protected).

I did put some 2-4-C lubricant inside the new water pump body and some soap on the new impeller. I doubt there is anything wrong with the lower gears becaus the drive ran fine. How do I get the drive shaft to turn by hand? Should I install the prop and try to turn it by the prop shaft?

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

before you try turning the propeller, just use channellocks on the driveshaft - use a rag if you think you'll burr the spline
once you turn it slightly, then it should go by hand.

am I the only guy with a big tube of KY-jelly in my toolbox? (don't answer that, or quote me )
it's water soluble

 

[scarpint]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

Pour some vegetable oil in to the water pump housing and turn the shaft clockwise.Installing a impeller dry can turn in to a disaster.

Ah, what kind of disaster?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

might actually damage the impeller. Are you sure you assembled it correctly and tightened down the nuts correctly?
Captain, i use the liquid KY ,just as good and impossable to spill or split open.

 

[andyandy]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

I'm pretty sure the new water pump is assembled and tightened down correctly, and I don't think the new water pump is the reason the drive shaft won't turn.
The lower drive shaft would not turn by hand even before removing the old water pump base. I don't remember exactly when it stopped turning by hand, but I know it did turn by hand at one time. At first, after separating the lower unit I could not budge the drive shaft at all; and then all of a sudden it did turn, and I was able to turn it clockwise with the shift lever in neutral, forward, and reverse. Later on, after removing the water pump body it would not turn.

Tonight after work I'm going to try turning it using channel locks with tape and a rag to protect the splines per Howard Sterndrive's suggestion. It would make me a lot more comfortable to see it turn by hand before I re-assemble the units.

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

Just two more cents here, but regarding your question on using the prop to turn everything, I imagine that could be done, just know that it will turn the vertical shaft counterclockwise, which is against the normal rotation of the water pump vanes. I do use the prop (slightly) to "adjust" the coupling splines when putting the drive back on the boat, but thats about it.

 

[andyandy]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

I tried to turn the lower drive shaft clockwise with channel locks and no go. The shaft rotates about 5 degrees and there is solid resistance in both directions, like the gears are blocked. I even filled the lower unit with gear lube to see if lubricating the gears would make a difference, but it does not. Is it possible something got loose when I replaced the the shift shaft bushing? I did pull the shift shaft out and placed it back, but the lower unit was always uprignt in a stand, and the shif tshaft appears to work fine. At this point I suspect I need to have the lowe unit dis-assembled and find out why the gears are not turning.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

split the drive again and see what's going on

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

I'm pretty sure the new water pump is assembled and tightened down correctly, and I don't think the new water pump is the reason the drive shaft won't turn.
The lower drive shaft would not turn by hand even before removing the old water pump base. I don't remember exactly when it stopped turning by hand, but I know it did turn by hand at one time. At first, after separating the lower unit I could not budge the drive shaft at all; and then all of a sudden it did turn, and I was able to turn it clockwise with the shift lever in neutral, forward, and reverse. Later on, after removing the water pump body it would not turn.

Tonight after work I'm going to try turning it using channel locks with tape and a rag to protect the splines per Howard Sterndrive's suggestion. It would make me a lot more comfortable to see it turn by hand before I re-assemble the units.

Can you turn your prop shaft freely CCW and CW with the shift shaft in neutral? I believe you need to get the water pump back off, including the pump base, and see whatcha got. If the prop shaft responds normally with shift shaft in fwd (i.e. locks CCW and ratchets CW) and with the shift shaft in rev (i.e. locks CW and ratchets CCW), and your vert shaft is still locked, then it sounds to me like you got a chipped tooth (or something else) that is intermittently jamming the lower gears (or maybe something is getting lodged in the bearing race). Invert the drive and try to rotate the prop shaft CCW (with shift shaft in "fwd" while trying to rotate the vert shaft CCW (opposite normal rotation). If it frees up, then you may have something rattling around in there and next step would be a lower end disassembly/inspection.

 

[muc]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

Lift up on the drive shaft while trying to turn it.

 

[ENSIGN]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

I've made the mistake of pulling a shift shaft out without disassembling a drive.What happens is the shift cam falls out and gets stuck in between the gear teeth.You'll need to disassemble the drive

 

[andyandy]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

I've made the mistake of pulling a shift shaft out without disassembling a drive.What happens is the shift cam falls out and gets stuck in between the gear teeth.You'll need to disassemble the drive

I thought about that as well. If the shift cam fell out of place and got stuck in between the gears then I would not be able to shift between gears, correct?
The lower unit was kept still and upright when I pulled out the shift shaft, and the shift shaft went back in OK and I installed a new bushing. Since I can shift gears no problem I suspect it's not a loose shift cam.
Is it worth disassembling the lower gears? A local merc mechanic quoted me $100 just to look at it and provide an estimate.

I also found out that my upper gears are a bit rusted and pitted and the upper bearing and race are rusted and pitted.
U-joints are great but cannot turn the upper gears by hand. So, I'm probably looking at a new SEI upper or better a new complete SEI 106 outdrive.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Can't turn Alpha Gen 1 lower drive shaft by hand after water pump replacement

I also found out that my upper gears are a bit rusted and pitted and the upper bearing and race are rusted and pitted.
U-joints are great but cannot turn the upper gears by hand. So, I'm probably looking at a new SEI upper or better a new complete SEI 106 outdrive.

Yep. I would suggest going with the complete drive - not just the upper.