Carb Clean Didn't help

[robeward]

THANKS. Using this forum and the manual I successfully (kinda) completed my first carb cleaning.

They were spotless and I don't see how they could have been any cleaner. Nonetheless went ahead and completed.

Checked link and sync...fine

Compression. Both read right at 150

Problem engine still will not crank and idle properly.

Movie of me cranking my engine. May take about 30 sec to start playing. Sry.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2078428/101_0659.MOV

Ultimately the engine will not hit unless I use the choke and will not idle in neutral. Idle jet was set to manual spec and spark plugs seem wet fouled.

Where to now?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

Using the primer is normal on a cold start and you may need to push it in several times before it warms up enough to idle well.

Is the low speed jet adjustable on those carbs? I ask that because on my 50 they were and just setting them at the factory recommended number of turns doesn't mean it will run well at that setting, its only a place to start.

Is this a new problem, or has it always done this?

 

[jonesg]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

They definately need to start wet and choked until they start to warm up, mine take almost a minute til it will idle hands free.

You might consider a spark test, set gap to 3/8th inch, don't use a sparkplug to test spark, get a spark tester from the auto store, adjustable type.

The video doesn't seem to bad, you might be unfamiliar with outboards.

Did you use rebuild kit for the carb?

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

what motor is it. did you remove all jets, including the top cover? sounds like it is not clean, or idle rpms are set too low.

 

[robeward]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

Ondarvr
Yes low speed is adjustable.
I adjusted the jet some but couldn't tell it was getting any better.
It has been acting this way for quite some time.

Jonesg
Spark was only thing couldn't check. Just didn't have a tester yet.
The engine still won't idle even after being out on the water with it. Try and idle up to the dock and before you can get there it will cut off.
I have had and operated the boat for four years and this is a developed problem.
Yes used a rebuild kit.

Tashasdaddy
1998 50hp Johnson. Mod No = J50TSLECC
Removed all jets and top cover except high speed jet in bottom of bowl. Thought I had a screw driver to do the job but it was too small.
First time seen the inside of carb but they looked pristine. No discoloration at all. Shined a light through all jets especially the low speed and doesn't appear to be any blockage

I don't think my cold start procedure is quite up to par though. I was just cranking it the way I always had. With these electric primers does holding the key in constantly pump fuel or do you need to repeated push in the key?

I tried to give it some choke one time it was barely idling but it would just bog down and cut off.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

On a cold start, pump the squeeze bulb, turn the key to "on", push in the primer button or key, which ever one you have, for the count of 5 to 10 (some motors need more or less than others) and then turn the key to start and hold the primer in until fires, then let it out. You may need to push it in few times until it warms up enough to stay running.

The idle adjustment screws on the carbs should make a big difference in how it idles. If they don't it means your carb still has junk in it plugging these passage ways. Did you take them out and spray carb cleaner and compressed air through them?

 

[robeward]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

Yes took the needle out and sprayed cleaner through that passage and down through the tiny jet that goes from the very top of the carb down to the bowl. I believe this was the idle jet as is was inside of a bigger one that stopped in the carb throat which is the high speed jet I am guessing. Read the sticky on cold start and will try and be a little more methodical next time when cranking.

Is the wetfoul a sign of running rich? Because the engine sounds like it is choking and always get that smoke puffing out which also seems like a sign of running rich? I just trying to find out if I am interpreting the signs the engine is giving correctly.

 

[fmalott]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

just reading the post sounds like what mine was doing but i have 25hp johnson 1980 replaced fuel pump and for the carb it was my high speed jet it was clogged get some thin wire to see if you can poke it through like electric cord or something similar just three strands will do i thought by cleaning with carb cleaner was good enough but realized it does not get all of clog out wire should do it see if it works make sure float is adjusted right

 

[Al-53]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

the wire on the bread ties works great......good jet cleaners....

Al

 

[robeward]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

yeah thanks for the tip. i will try it soon. blew cleaner through the jet even though i couldn't get it out. assumed that it was fine since i was only having trouble with idle but we all know what assuming can do now don't we

 

[Sir Robin]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

Just remembering MY first carb cleaning...... did it 5 times before listening to the goo rues here......(spelling NOT my highest suit) THEN, after taking it COMPLEATLY apart,and using a set of number drills, (round end) to clean jets AND removing the welch plugs (where did all THAT stuff come from?)..... VIOLA!

 

[robeward]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

Know what your saying. Spent a lot of time reading and tried to follow every bodies direction. Feel pretty confident about the carbs being clean but this still is a learning process. Just not understanding what the engine is saying.

 

[Ranger Danger]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

I thought mine were clean too until I got the high speed jets out earlier today. Found all kinds of crap down there, and this was after an overnight soak in carb clean and blowing air through them.

Once I got the high speed jets out I used pipe cleaners to clean the openings and also the opening through the bottom of the carb bowl. I'm going to follow that up with another overnight soak.

 

[robeward]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

Yeah think I need to use a wire to help confirm that carbs are actually clean and adjust my starting procedure a little. When I first got the boat several years ago I didn't know one thing about an engine. Knowing that it was a 2 stroke I was very apprehensive about using the choke too much for fear of flooding it at which I didn't think it would crank and leave me stranded.

One more question, if the manual says start w/ 3.5 out from slightly seated would anybody be surprised if I had to drop all the way down to 2.5 for it to idle properly? I know I should go in small increments (like 1/8'') but curious how far I should travel in one direction before looking elsewhere?

Was jonesg saying that it is normal for plugs to be a little wet during startup?

 

[robeward]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

Just to follow up I took the engine to a mechanic. They double checked the carbs and link and sync. According to them everything was pretty much fine there. They also checked the ignition timing and said that it was off. Not sure what exactly they did to it but I am going to take it out this weekend and see if it is fixed. Just wanted to pass along for future readers.

One question still, ondarvr says to push and hold to primer for a few seconds before cranking. Isn't the primer just a valve and not a pump which seems like holding it without turning the key would do nothing or am I still confused?

Thanks

 

[jtexas]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

Right, the primer is a valve, held open by the solenoid while the key is in the "on" position and pushed in, during which time fuel is draining into the engine. That motor needs rich mixture for starting, but no need to prime at all when the motor is warm.

Go to the "engine FAQ" section of iboats, the "carb cleaning" thread will show you how to fabricate a jet removal tool (brass jet is too soft to risk mangling with regular screwdriver), and the "Carb needle adjustments" thread will show you how to do that.

 

[robeward]

Re: Carb Clean Didn't help

thanks jtexas. will definitely give the primer a few seconds before cranking and have been through the FAQ. They are a big help.