Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

[BrandonHa]

So I got a project going on my boat. I posted in the Sunbird section, wish I would of put it here in on the Restoration topic but thats ok. I NEVER thought I would be rebuilding a boat. Honestly, this is just a blast and have not had this much fun in a long time. Having the opportunity to build my boat exactly the way I want it is just awesome!

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=404623

The foam was incredibly water logged and thats what started the entire thing. The more I got in to it the more I realized that I needed to get the entire boat and just start over.

With our boat we are of course replacing all of the foam and adding quite a few other options. Weight is an issue, I want to lighten the load as much as I can without compromising the integrity.

I have been reading up a lot on Carbon Fiber / Kevlar. I have not found a thread or even anything in google about someone replacing their deck with one of these materials.

I am adding a livewell, moving batteries to the bow, below deck. Adding storage boxes port and starboard. All of these will have to be built in such a way that I can lift a panel to access them.

Using the livewell for an example. It will be below deck, behind the center console. So I have to create a hinged lid and we will be walking on it. Same thing in the bow with the batteries. They will be below deck but we fish from the bow so will be standing on that panel a lot.

So I am asking you guys, the pro's. Is it possible? What are the pro's and cons?

It is a 1991 Sunbird SeaCore 173. Its a heavy monster with all that foam in it.

Here is a pic

 

[tlzimmerman]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

It would be very strong and light, and you would never be able to get the money you have in it back out of the boat. If you are going to keep it and run it forever though.....I say go for it! It aint my money and I would love to see a carbon fiber deck LOL.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

Hmm, What is your reasoning for Kevlar?? Why the need for this kind of Strength?

 

[legoman67]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

pro - extremely strong

con- extremely expensive

like mentioned above, i dont see the point in using anything more then fiberglass, and the strength of the hull as a whole is only as good as the weakest point.

also i dont believe Kevlar or CF have any different water deterring properties, so any wood core would still rot the same as if you were to use fiberglass...

 

[sasto]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

pro - extremely strong

con- extremely expensive

like mentioned above, i dont see the point in using anything more then fiberglass, and the strength of the hull as a whole is only as good as the weakest point.

also i dont believe Kevlar or CF have any different water deterring properties, so any wood core would still rot the same as if you were to use fiberglass...

and I wouldn't recommend any backyard boatbuilder using Kevlar or CF.

 

[83mulligan]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

and I wouldn't recommend any backyard boatbuilder using Kevlar or CF.

If money isn't the object, then why not?

 

[sasto]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

We built a 30 footer several years ago that was probably 50% Kevlar and all hatch lids, seats, stringer caps and most of the interior of CF. We had years expierence between 4 of us with FRP. Working with K and CF is difficult to get it right. Need good equipment, rollers, squeeges, and a shop vac. Not saying anybody can't do it, just doing it right the first time was difficult. If I was to use K on a deck I would recommend vacuum bagging and using closed cell foam. If money is no object....Just Do It.

 

[Coho Ghost]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

Brandon,

IMHO you should not use kevlar or CF. They are both very expensive. CF requires epoxy resin, also more expensive. Kevlar is just plain a bear to work with. A friend messed with it making gun stocks, and had to buy carbide sissors to cut it. In addition it is difficult to wet out with resin, and has a coefficent of thermal expansion greater than aluminum. This was told to me by the fellow who used to own Tacoma Fiberglass, Dave R.

The chopped strand mattes, cloths, rovings and bi-axials in glass all work pretty darn good. Heck, that's what you boat is made from.


Coho Ghost,
In SW Washington

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

It can be done, but why?

I say this because its difficult, costly and you really won't gain anything by using them for this application.

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

To be totally honest, I dont even qualify as a back yard boat builder.

I spend a couple hours everyday working on the boat. I found that one of my sons absolutely loves working on the boat with me. Even if it is costing me $5.00 an hour

Being totally honest again, money is an issue but I am willing to eat macaroni and cheese for awhile if I have to. Your guy's opinions here on iboats has helped me a LOT. I have only made a few posts but usually am up until 1:00am reading and learning and then apply it the next day.

You know how some guys rebuild cars and trick them out? I think its tickling the same fancy with me and the boat. That is really the only good real reason I have. I mean keeping the weight to a minimum is a reason but like ya'll said CF or Carbon Fiber is way overkill. Its just something I am very curious about.

I have to weigh the benefits against the cost like you guy's suggested and know that the boat will never be worth what I put in to it. Thats darn good advice.

Really enjoying reading everyones opinion and advice. I gotta go meet the wife to pick up her horse trailer. I will be back

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

@Ondarvr, You are from Monroe? I was born and raised in Snohomish but headed east about 5 years ago.

Based on what you guys told me I think I will put the CF idea on hold. I really want the restore (For lack of better words) to go well and not create any more problems. I want to have the boat done by the middle of August and it really sounds like if I so as attempted a CF deck it would put me back months.

Maybe during winter I will build a CF center console.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

I'm actually in Spokane tonight.

I lived in Snohomish for 22 years and now Monroe for seven.


Put that extra time and money into the motor, that will have the biggest effect on enjoyable boating.

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

I'm actually in Spokane tonight.

I lived in Snohomish for 22 years and now Monroe for seven.


Put that extra time and money into the motor, that will have the biggest effect on enjoyable boating.

lol! I am on my way to Spokane here in a few minutes. Going down to buy some stuff for the boat

 

[ghamby]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

A bright young man at the marina warned me that carbon fiber was "noble as hell" in relation to galvanic corrosion. I took this to mean that I had to mind
what kind of metal came into contact with the CF. Perhaps an old salt could
chime in here and enlighten me. GH

I enlightened myself. CF will react unfavorably with aluminum.
I searched: "galvanic corrosion with carbon fiber"
I found a wealth of info. GH

 

[pcosky]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

I've done some composites work and can't see what benefit the CF or Kevlar would be unless you needed it to meet the design specs.

If you really wanted to do something different, strong, and light you could pick up some Nomex honeycomb and laminate it with CF/Kevlar cloth then putthe whole thing in a vacuum bag to make a big panel that would then be cut down to make the deck. They use this type of construction in aviation, it's STRONG and light but expensive and if you screw up the initail layup you just torched a fistful of cash.

I have the gear (read indutrial grade vacuum pump, rollers, epoxy scales) and knowledge to this work and I wouldn;t do it even if money were not an object. I may have to do a deck replacement on the boat I just acquired and it will be exterior grade ply sealed with epoxy and fiberglass.

A console with a CF surface layer would certainly add to the bling factor though.

 

[saildan]

Re: Carbon fiber or Kevlar deck replacement?

A bright young man at the marina warned me that carbon fiber was "noble as hell" in relation to galvanic corrosion. I took this to mean that I had to mind
what kind of metal came into contact with the CF. Perhaps an old salt could
chime in here and enlighten me. GH

I enlightened myself. CF will react unfavorably with aluminum.
I searched: "galvanic corrosion with carbon fiber"
I found a wealth of info. GH

The "Nobel Metals" are those base element metals on the periodic table that do not readily break down in the presence of oxygen. However, carbon, not being a metal, is not among the list. The young man appears to have been alluding to the issues you uncovered in your galvanic action search. So was he being sarcastic or did he have the reference turned around :redface:

The other thing I remember from my college chemistry is the term "Nobel" can loosely refer to anything metallic. Maybe this was an association with conductivity.

Whatever the perception, I think you hit on the issue in your search discoveries.