Charging and Timming questions

[pursuit2460]

I want to start off by thanking Rick on his advice about the location of the primmer buld it made all the diff. in the world. Ok, I have a 93 john. 225. I took it out to day to do some fishing while at the ramp I did the timming. This were the results, with the boat on the trailer and in the water I accelerated it in gear to 4500 could get it to 5500 and set the timming to 18deg.BTC. Was this ok since I couldnt get the required rpms. Next i took off from the marina and adjusted the idle timming by just ingaging it into gear and adjusting it. I could get it to4-6 ATC like the book said if I did it would die so I adjusted to about 1ATC to TDC and idled fine is this ok. Next I had no problems all day long boat ran perfect like never before. But on the way back in the tach stopped working and I was getting no charging. Tach is new and I had the same problem with the old tach. What can be causing this is the charging sytem and tach connected in some way. What could be wrong. Im getting to the point where I dont know what to do, I fix something and something else goes wrong. All elec. parts in the motor are new. Its like all day long your excitted that your boat is finally running perfect and boom something happens there went your day. Anyways any and all info. will be greaty app. THANKS

 

[Walker]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

No charging and your tach quit. 99.9% chance your rectifier is bad

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

The tach reads the output signal from the stator at the regulator / rectifier. In most cases when you lose the tach, you've lost the charging or at least 1/2 of it. Most likely the reg/rec is bad.<br /><br />Clean all the battery connections and connections on the terminal board under the pack real good. Lose the wingnuts on the battery. Replace them with nylocks.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

Well the stator, power pack, reg/rec, and timmer base are all new. New battery cables, starter solenoid, and harness from engine to control. Dhandley my motor doesnt have a terminal board under the power pack everything plugs in. I had this happen before with the old elec. parts. If this keeps happening can it damage anything else. What about the way I did my timing was that ok.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

bumb

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

This were the results, with the boat on the trailer and in the water I accelerated it in gear to 4500 could get it to 5500 and set the timming to 18deg.BTC.

Yes, 5500 is fine.<br /><br />Youre right about not having a terminal board, I guess I was thinking of 1990 not 93. But check the connections anyway. Make sure you used dielectric grease on them. <br /><br />You mentioned you changed the reg/rec before. Was it bad?

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

Dhadley, I could not get it to 5500 on the trailer. I just noticed my mistake. I had to adjust it at 4500 on the trailer. I dont know if the old reg/rec was bad but I know that the stator and power pack were bad. So I figured Id change it all so I woulndnt have any problems. What about the idle timming is TDC-1deg ATDC ok.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

Can it be a battery problem. My battery are probally 2 1/2- 3 years old and never had a problem with them. Also does the reg/rec have some type of internall reset the would cause it to do this. Going out on a limb here but mabye a bad battery will cause the rec/reg to stop working and them reset it self. Also can water temp. play a role in all this. I read that air can get trapped under the reg/rec and not cool it. Just thinking aloud here. Like I said be for Im frustrated with all the problems Ive been having.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

Well I just pulled out the CDI box that the reg/rec came in and looked at the troubleshooting guide. The only test I was able to perform was the voltage output on the gray wire. The guide said that it should be at aleast 8 volts Im getting 6. I put the voltmeter right at the starter solinoid and was getting 13.03. what do you guys thing, can it also be the stator. Id hate to sent it to CDI for tests and find out nothing is wrong at least with the stator. Im 99% positive the reg/rec is bad because of the reading I got.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

If you set the timing at 4500 thats fine. A general rule of thumb is that after the timer base hits the stop it'll pick up about 1* for every 1000 rpm thereafter. So if you're looking for 18* at 5500-5800 you can set it to about 17* at 4500. Make sure you set the pointer at TDC before setting the timing.<br /><br />Got wingnuts on the battery?

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

Just an FYI in case it hadn't come up -- never ever run that motor without the airbox cover under a load. <br /><br />Another thought -- run a temporary wire from the grey terminal on the motor to the tach. Just in case.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

No I dont have wingnuts on the battery. Did you read the test that I did on the gray wire from the reg/rec and the charging volts I was getting.

 

[Seasport]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

Just a thought - you didn't switch the battery switch when the motor was running did you? The voltage spikes generated can fry your reg/rec if you do - likewise loose battery terminals.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

No I always turn off the engine to switch batterys. And I have nylon nuts on the battery also.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

I sent my reg/rec back to CDI for testing. I talked to them yesterday and they said that my reg/rec was working perfect charging 14.2 and 8-11 volts comming from the gray wire. Not what I was getting when I was checking it. So now im back to square one what can it be. CDI told me that they very seriuslly bought that the stator would cause the problem Im having. All I have left to replace is the engine main harness and ignition coils.

 

[todd foster]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

13 volts at idle isn't that bad.what is it at wot?

 

[jhebert]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

The signal on the TACHOMETER lead (Gray) is not a steady-state voltage. It is a series of pulses whose frequency is proportional to the engine crankcase speed, and whose voltage varies between near the battery voltage and near ground or zero. As a result, when you connect a simple voltmeter to this signal you will obtain a reading which represents some sort of average or integration over time of the voltage at the input to the meter.<br /><br />Every voltmeter will respond to a non-steady voltage in a different way, and the reading that a volt meter displays when averaging a signal like this is just that, an average voltage according to how the particular meter measures voltage.<br /><br />In the OMC literature I am certain that a particular model of voltmeter is specified. And the reading that is given is probably the reading you'd get with that voltmeter. However, if you measure the voltage with another meter, there is every possibility you will get a different reading, depending, again, on how that meter works.<br /><br />An intermittent electrical problem can be very frustrating to locate. Since you have mentioned that practically all of the devices in the circuit which would affect the tachometer have been replaced, i.e., the stator coil, the rectifier, and the tachometer, this leaves little else for the cause, except the connections themselves.<br /><br />Perhaps there is a bad connection in the wiring harness or in one of the connectors involved. One way to test this theory is to temporarily run a wire directly from the tachometer terminal post on the instrument to the tachometer output on the rectifier.<br /><br />If either of these two portions of the circuit are already part of a connector, check the connector itself for damage, for a loose pin, or for a pin that has moved in the connector so it does not make strong contact.<br /><br />One thing that happens during engine operation is heat built up. I would suspect the connectors under the cowling first. When the engine warms up something may expand slightly and become intermittent.

 

[pursuit2460]

Re: Charging and Timming questions

I understand that It might be a loose connection but its wierd that the tach goes out and the charging system stops working at the same time. Tach starts working so does the cut charging system. The tach I would understand that it my have a bad connection but the red wire that comes out of the reg/rec connects directly with the batt. cable at the starter solinoid and I have already made sure thats not the problem. I just dont know what the tach wire has to do with the charging wire. Also I forgot to mension when I was on the phone with CDI on last friday they told me to try a new batt. I bought a new batt. hooked everything up and ran the motor. With in 5 mins. the tach went dead and no charging. Grabed my fluke meter and checked for tach voltage at the tach and then in the vro plug. I then checked the volts at the starter solinoid terminal and I was getting 12.5 normall batt. voltage. Then everything came back. Checked the vro plug 6 volts checked the solinoid and 13.10. Makes no sense to me.