Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

[jbjennings]

I love to read through the posts people write about outboards, particularly the old ones, since I really like 50's johnsons and evinrudes. I also have read where some folks suggest (or plain out say) that buying "cheap" oil is bad. All the oil I've ever seen in stores today is TCW-3. Yes, I've at one time or another bought Walmart "Supertech", although I normally run Pennzoil supreme or whatever it's called. Is this walmart junk what's so bad, or is the Pennzoil not good enough? Is only the high-dollar stuff with the johnson or evinrude sticker what I should run? I know Johnson/evinrude puts their fancy additive in there, but was wondering if anyone has actually seen some hard test data that proves the john/rude stuff is that much better. Or better yet, can some ace mechanics like F-R or DHadley or many others that see motors everyday tell me that I would be wise to run the expensive stuff? What's the big deal? Carbon build-up? I am not speaking of the big motors over 40 hp or the newer etechs and such, just a basic old 2-stroke made from 1950 to 2000. I would never put newer sae 30 oil with the detergents in mine (I've read and understand that), but yes, I do sometimes run walmart brand if that's all there is on the shelf. If it's TCW-3, I would think it's o.k.
Set me straight and tell me---what is the SMARTEST thing to run. I plan on keeping all my oldies until my wife sells them all for 5 dollars just to get rid of them the minute I keel over. --And I want somebody to get a good deal.
JBJ

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

prior to 64 they ran straight 30 wt. non detergent.

 

[JB]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

Most (or all) of the difference in price between SuperTech and brand named TC-W3 oils is advertizing, marketing, other overhead and hype.

Synthetics are something else, but I would need a lot of convincing that they offer any advantage in older outboards.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

Being a parsimonius fellow, (tighter than a crab's a**hole--and that's water tight) (squeeze a nickel until the buffalo screams) I can not abide paying more for the printing on the container. I ALWAYS buy cheapest brand 87 octane gasoline --for both my autos and boats-- because the engine does not need more octane and buying more is just wasting money.

Similarly, I believe that the letters TCW 3 indicate a level of performance set by SAE or the boating equivalent. So I always buy Wal Mart oil OR what ever is on sale cheapest. After all, all I am doing is burning it.

Do I really need a higher level of additives (If they are indeed in there) than required? Remember: Evinrude or Mercury do not manufacture their own oil. They buy it with specifications (TCW 3 Specs) and it is packaged with their label. It may indeed be the same oil you are buying from Wal Mart under the Supertech label. The only major difference MAY be that branded oils MAY be virgin stock and "cheap" oils MAY be recycled. But think about this before you dis recycled oil: ALL my engines are recycled also. They run just as well or even better than when they were new.

I have a number of engines with high hours on them and have not had a failure due to "cheap" oil.

Actual data? One failure I did have ---before I knew which side of the boat was wet--- was due to using automotive 10-30 oil in an outboard. The additive package in multi grade oil is harmful to 2 cycle engines. The piston failure happened very soon after switching to the tank with the 10-30

 

[wbeaton]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

Syntheyics are something else, but I would need a lot of convincing that they offer any advantage in older outboards.

Synthetics make much less smoke and pollution. I've switched from conventional in my 50's OMC's and will never go back. Mixed at 24:1 there is still very little smoke.

I think as long as its TC-W3 you can't go wrong.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

The long and short of this is if you have an engine that requires TCW-3 branded oil, use TCW-3 branded oil. It doesn't matter if you pay $5.00/gal or $20.00/gal. That oil meets the TCW-3 requirements. I have two brands on the shelf. Citgo conventional at $8.99/gal and Pennzoil Semi Synthetic that I bought at Wally World last winter for $7.00/gal. Bought all they had. I use both.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

If it meets the standard for your motor then it is good. I use the "Canadian Tire" brand when it is on sale and the wal Mart brand as well. No issues and the motor continues to run like a top !!!
I also like the smell of the 2 stroke first thing in the morning. I am going to miss it till spring !!!

 

[pecheux]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

And all this time I tought I was the only one who liked the exhaust smell of a 2 stroke OB ... I even pick my odor by choosing certain bran of oil ... LOL Amsoil synthetic Injector 2 cycle oil pleases me most ... LOL

I'm in the same boat as Kenmyfam ... LOL except that I'll start mine in the garage a few times in the winter months ... good way to spread the 2 cycle odor all over the house (at my wife's despair .. LOL)

Kiddings aside: Ran a 6 cyl 115 hp Merc for 6 years on Canadian Tire tc-w3 oil without any problem.

 

[achris]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

You all have valid agreements. If it meets TCW-3 standard then an engine that requires TCW-3 should be ok on it..... However, as a mechanic who's pulled down many engines I can tell you that I could tell the brand of oil an engine had been running on by the carbon deposits, and there IS a huge difference. I suspect that a lot of engines running the cheap oils have significant deposits in the combustion chamber and around the rings and on the piston skirts. You may not have noticed any differences in performance because the loss of performance will have occurred slowly, but I bet if you used a good de-carbonizer and ran the engine on a cleaner oil you will notice a difference, particularly in gas consumption.

When we had our shop we kept a copy of an Australian boating magazine, that ran a test on TCW-3 oils, on our front counter for clients to read. All the different brands of oil in all the different brands of outboards, and the testers noticed significant differences in performance, smoke and fuel economy between the different brands, and it wasn't consistent with oil cost. The most expensive oil showed the poorest results!

I've even come across a couple of engines that would not run at all on a particular brand of TCW-3 oil, but would be quite happy on any other brand. Go figure.

Where's Lubedude when we need him?

Chris..............

 

[Lone Duck]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

speaking of the smell of 2 stroke oil. I love the smell of it after a snowmobile has gone down the trail. I spent some time trapping and the smell of it brings back fond memories. So if you miss it try a snowmobile in the winter. It might help you get by till next boating season.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

Nah-Nah-Nah----You guys haven't lived until you smell Castor Oil, Methanol, and Nitro burning--from a small 2 stroke turning 20,000 RPM. Beats the hell out of TCW 3. Almost like Mary Jane. ---At least to me.

 

[achris]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

Nah-Nah-Nah----You guys haven't lived until you smell Castor Oil, Methanol, and Nitro burning--from a small 2 stroke turning 20,000 RPM. Beats the hell out of TCW 3. Almost like Mary Jane. ---At least to me.

NOW you're talking Model aeroplanes, oh that sweet smell...

 

[JB]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

Model airplanes? Okay, but that's what I ran in my racing karts for a while. Didn't often get to 20Krpm, though.

 

[Expidia]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

And all this time I tought I was the only one who liked the exhaust smell of a 2 stroke OB ... I even pick my odor by choosing certain bran of oil ... LOL Amsoil synthetic Injector 2 cycle oil pleases me most ... LOL


Ya,me too! Even though I'm stuck with an odorless four stroke now I sometimes take a small piece of felt and dip in two stroke oil and then superglue it under my nose on my upper lip before I turn the key. I also sprinkle some oil on the water just so I can recreate the whole effect

Sorry . . . just couldn't resist when I read the above . . . hey, it's snowing outside and I'm bored and I miss being on the water

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

I was actually thinking a little old school: A three point, picklefork hydro, running a piped Rossi or OPS (oops) and Octura prop and running gear ---Doing about 120 actual MPH. No sound or smell quite like it.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

You all have valid agreements. If it meets TCW-3 standard then an engine that requires TCW-3 should be ok on it..... However, as a mechanic who's pulled down many engines I can tell you that I could tell the brand of oil an engine had been running on by the carbon deposits, and there IS a huge difference. I suspect that a lot of engines running the cheap oils have significant deposits in the combustion chamber and around the rings and on the piston skirts. You may not have noticed any differences in performance because the loss of performance will have occurred slowly, but I bet if you used a good de-carbonizer and ran the engine on a cleaner oil you will notice a difference, particularly in gas consumption.

When we had our shop we kept a copy of an Australian boating magazine, that ran a test on TCW-3 oils, on our front counter for clients to read. All the different brands of oil in all the different brands of outboards, and the testers noticed significant differences in performance, smoke and fuel economy between the different brands, and it wasn't consistent with oil cost. The most expensive oil showed the poorest results!

I've even come across a couple of engines that would not run at all on a particular brand of TCW-3 oil, but would be quite happy on any other brand. Go figure.

Where's Lubedude when we need him?

Chris..............

Chris, your post was very interesting..... In that magazine article you mentioned-what was the best? Also, can you suggest any brands that are in Australia that are also available in the U.S.? I'm going to try some searching elsewhere and see if I can come with some websites that have some studies like the one you mentioned. Also, I was hoping some full-time mechanics like yourself that have cracked open a lot of engines would check in.
THANKS,
JBJennings

 

[MikDee]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

I run Penzoil synthetic blend TC3 oil from Walmart, and maybe it's me, but it does seem to smoke more then anything else I can remember?,,, I noticed it when using it in my 96' Yamaha Waveventure 1100, or in my 89' Force 125hp outboard. I thought synthetics were supposed to smoke less? I also use Walmart Supertech TC-3 oil on occasion in both, it seems to smoke less.

Yes, I like the smell of burnt 2cycle/gas mix also, and burnt nitro fuel on gas model engines.

 

[BruceAML]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

If you think all TCW3 oils are the same you are mistaken. You can meet the TCW3 specifications but you can also exceed them and far exceed them. As an example, Mercury or Quicksilver sells three different types of TCW3 oil. They are each different and differently priced. The same holds true for 4 cycle engine oil. Many people believe that in a 2 cycle engine the oil will just be burned so what's the difference. There will always be anecdotal stories of someone running the cheapest oil and having no problems. This is not proof that all TCW3 oils are equal. My belief is that saving money on TCW3 oil is false economy. I like to look at things using a life-cycle cost analysis. Using this method will often show that the more expensive product is actually cheaper over the life of the product. As an example, a more expensive tire may have much longer tread life and if you compare the total life of the tire and a per mile cost, the more expensive tire is often cheaper and better.

 

[DJ]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

You get what you pay for. Kapeesh?

How much oil can you run through your engine where economy breaks over engine breakage?

For most of us, it's simple. Buy the good stuff. I've alweays done so and never had an engine failure. Lots of hours.

No facts, no figures, just 30 years of boating experience.

 

[tommays]

Re: Cheap 2-stroke oil????? Actual data?

The bad part about the test it is ONLY PASS/FAIL with the wear of parts being measured in key areas


It is a short test compared to what happens over a 10 year time span




Tommays