China ?

[donandmax]

I've heard that Nissan outboard motors are not made in Japan but China is this correct ?And they are all not EPA certified..
Thanks
Don

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: China ?

Simply not true on both counts. You have been reading libelous crap.

 

[donandmax]

Re: China ?

Thanks TG yea I was reading an article on another forum someone bitchin about being talked to pretty bad by a Nissan dealer.(on ebay) The author of this complaint made those statements just thought I would check them out.
Thanks
Don

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: China ?

I'm probably the dealer in question It's amazing how much crap is posted on the web that is 99.99% untrue.

 

[TGuy]

Re: China ?

China? No. They're ALL made in Japan. There are some Yamaha knock-offs (sold under the parsuns, sail outboards, and several other names) that are made in China. Some of the Mercury models (I think it's their 50 & 60hp?) are made in China. And some of the Suzuki's are made in Thailand. But ALL of Tohatsu & Nissan outboards are made in Japan. And ALL are certified by the EPA and CARB (California version of the EPA). I don't know where you read the other stuff but it's 100% not true. At least you were smart enough to double-check and not just take what you read on some website as the gospel truth ))

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: China ?

China? No. They're ALL made in Japan. There are some Yamaha knock-offs (sold under the parsuns, sail outboards, and several other names) that are made in China.

Sail & Parsuns are the same brother brands engines made in CHina, don't have aything to do with Yamaha, not even spare parts will fit.

Happy Boating

 

[TGuy]

Re: China ?

really? At one time their parsun website claimed that their parts were yamaha compatible and/or "interchangable" with Yamaha parts. Which sort of makes it sound like they just copied some old Yamaha designs (otherwise why would Yamaha parts fit it?). And I would seriously doubt their motors have actually been through all the EPA testing procedures for outboard emissions. Somehow I doubt they are "CARB" certified either.

on the website for worldoutboards.com (parsun's) it's kind of funny to read some of the stuff they say...like...

"At Parsun Outboards, all major dealers carry a minimum of spare outboard parts inventory"

so...all dealers carry a minimum of parts inventory? Good to know that their dealers don't have much inventory of parts. :-D

LOL

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: China ?

Before importing Tohatsu engines, inquired about Sail/Parsun engines directly to the manufacturer in China, the tech manager told me that no spare Yamaha part will fit, although engines looks very alike. This Company also produces motorcycles, water pumps, etc. You can place anything on the net, read myself what you are stating about Yamaha compatibility, these guys should be sued for false propaganda statements as new boaters who will buy or just bought their products will rely on Yam parts, which is a sales true lie.

Happy Boating

 

[eds3172]

Re: China ?

I beg to differ. The parts are IDENTICAL. I personally have swapped a few out.

 

[JB]

Re: China ?

Pretty strong statement, eds. Please supply details.

 

[freeisforme]

Re: China ?

I was at a fishing tackle show about a year or so ago down in FL, one display there had a Parsun outboard, and a Yamaha ouboard side by side with the cover off, to show that they were identical. The two motors looked the same other than paint color, and the sales pitch was that the Chinese motor came with spare parts, two spare impeller kits, four spare spark plugs, a timing belt, and a handful of carb and fuel pump parts. The problem was they weren't that much cheaper than the name brand motor. I could buy a Tohatsu down the isle for only a few dollars more. Even the Yamaha wasn't but a few hundred more than the one they were trying to sell. I think the motor they were comparing was a 30hp.
I remember seeing several ads saying that they use Yamaha parts, but never tried it, I've never even seen one in use yet.
I do like how the current website says that each motor comes with spare parts, but what happens when those spare parts are used up?

If they were super cheap, as in throw away cheap, then they might be a viable alternative but their not, they're as high as any other outboard brand, and most likely not of the same quality. If I'm going to buy Chinese junk, I want it to be priced accordingly.

I did buy a second hand rototiller with a Greyhound brand engine made in China for $20, the motor is a dead ringer for a Honda GX series 5 hp. I've already used a Honda carb kit and recoil assembly on it, which is all that was needed to get it going. It runs and performs the same as any other 5 hp motor I've had. It's probably one of the easiest to start motors I've ever owned. Warm or cold, a light pull fires it right up no matter how long it's been sitting. If I could find an outboard that ran that well, I'd buy one in a minute. Especially if it were cheaper than a name brand motor.

I've been running mostly all old outboards simply because the new motors are priced so far out of reach. When a new 20 hp outboard is pushing $4,000, more than I paid for my boat and truck combined, there's something wrong. If they came here with an affordable outboard, one that's priced accordingly to other Chinese items, I'd most definitely give one a try. But there's no way I'm putting out $1999 on a Chinese motor knowing what things can be bought for there.

 

[John_S]

Re: China ?

And they are all not EPA certified..
Thanks
Don

I don't know a thing about the parsons outboards, but if they are not significantly cheaper (as freeisforme says), they will probably not be imported in great numbers. As far as them being epa certified it would be up to the importer to have the proper documentation for customs. If inspected and found to be lacking, the product can cost the importer $$ while it racks up storage fees, fines, and may be crushed or otherwise disposed of. If it is like the small diesel tractors, (which I have imported for personnel use), there are a few "loop holes". At one time, they were claiming a huge stock pile of 1999 mfg engines. ie ones that didn't need epa cert. Some got away with that for many years into the 2000's. They eventually got epa tags when the exemption for even the 1999 engines expired. Do they realy test them, and follow all the requirements? Don't know. The importers would be the ones with the risk. but if proven false, they could prevent all of them from entering the country. Even once that happens, if there was a significant price diff, some "shady' importers might change the name on the BOL, and hope it skates through.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: China ?

There are a variety of ways the Chinese get around the EPA regulations. Some just put phony stickers on them and send them across the loosely scrutinized Canadian border. Some bring them in in pieces and them assemble them here. Some models, in the label of the day, actually do have EPA approval. But, you would have to be an idiot(opinion) to buy one. As "freeisforme" pointed out, if it was cheap enough to be a throw a way engine it might be cost effective....But, they aren't so why would anyone one buy one? I wouldn't buy one in any case as I have a personal policy of not buying products from a country that is an enemy of the U.S.(when possible).

 

[John_S]

Re: China ?

There are a variety of ways the Chinese get around the EPA regulations. Some just put phony stickers on them and send them across the loosely scrutinized Canadian border. Some bring them in in pieces and them assemble them here. Some models, in the label of the day, actually do have EPA approval. But, you would have to be an idiot(opinion) to buy one. As "freeisforme" pointed out, if it was cheap enough to be a throw a way engine it might be cost effective....But, they aren't so why would anyone one buy one? I wouldn't buy one in any case as I have a personal policy of not buying products from a country that is an enemy of the U.S.(when possible).

Sounds like the same deal as the tractors and equipment.

The chinese can't force the stuff on us. It takes an importer at this end.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: China ?

Up until the last two years it has always been Chinese, shill, import/export "business's" run out of Canada by what I suspect, are PRC shadow companies.(I loathe them ) In the last two years, one legitimate business, Tomos of Canada actually invested in one label and has provided some legitimacy to the product. Still a POS, but that has been a hurdle they couldn't get past before. It wouldn't surprise me if the Chinese actually produce a quality outboard at some point in the next five years. I still wouldn't touch one by choice, but by then we may not have a choice. Who would have thought five years ago that Mercury or Evinrude would be building engines in China? I see more models being built there in the future as manufacturers try to find more ways to be profitable.

 

[freeisforme]

Re: China ?

I suppose motors are a lot like many other items from China, fishing reels for example cover a wide range of quality from China, from total junk, to run of the mill, to fairly high end products. It all depends on how strict the buyer is about quality control. The downfall is their aptitude for counterfeiting. I've seen and been offered just about every name brand product which have either been made out of license by an OEM contracted source, or blatant forgeries. The problem is that the general public often can't tell the difference and blames the brand name for the junk item.
To some extent, at least in many cases, they are to blame in that they took their designs to China in the first place and simply lost control of the production numbers. For instance, a US company contracts a Chinese factory for 100,000 of a particular item built to their specs, in turn, the factory in China builds 200,000 plus, sells the initial order to the original company for the agreed price, and then sells the other 100,000 items to anyone that will pay for maybe half or less. The first 100,000 were checked and quality controlled buy the contracting company, the second 100,000 items were done as cheaply as possible to maximize profits. These make it to the US through internet and other sources and get sold for cheap, when the fail, they get returned to the original US company that made nothing on the inferior item in the first place. The original company has now lost control of their design, patents don't mean a thing in China, so now 10 companies are making the same item and pushing out quantity not quality, and the original companies name gets a bad rap for the Chinese products.

So far the worst or most blatant copies that I've seen have been Honda motors, so far I've only see small yard product engines but have heard that there are Honda Outboard clones there as well, which have made it to other shores but so far not to the USA that I know of.

What it boils down to is that yes, I'd buy a 25 to 40hp Chinese motor if the were like $400 or so, but for a few bucks less than a name brand, no way.
For $400, I'd deal with the issues and short comings in hopes of fixing and finessing the concerns myself. But at full price, with no real warranty, I'm not the least bit interested.

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: China ?

HIJACK.

Next come's cars.