chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...

[hoffmanmotors]

Hi, Im a newby so be gentle. I took possession of a FREE 1974 invader tri hull with a chrysler 135 on the back. The guy i got it from said it runs pretty good but needed the lower unit serviced.

So i rebuild the lower unit with new seals, water pump , new gear oil Etc. Put it all together and test ran it in a Brute 30 gal bucket of water. Started right up, water pump was working great but was Missing when idling. Reved it up a bit and still stumbled and missed it seemed. after warming up and idling for 5-10 minutes it started to idle lower and not want to stay running. i dont think its over heating (i think).

by the way I replaced the fuel pump diaphragm, and installed new NGK BUHW plugs. took the fuel bowls off the carbs and no gunk or debris in them. this was all done before start up. I am not at all familiar with outboard engines so im not sure where to start looking. any advise or help would be much appreciated

-Jeff
Buckeye AZ.

 

[hoffmanmotors]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...

By the way, i have not performed a compression test yet. I will try and do so very soon and post the results. Boat is parked at my fathers house and my compression tester is at home.

 

[Justinde]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...

As gentle as I can be.

Welcome to the worlds best forum.

If you don't get a 'buzzer' telling you she is overheating, she probably isn't. Definatley check compression, but also definatley change the waterpump, service the lower unit, and do the link & sync ( sticky inthe forum by Frank Acampora). Missing could be timing, but sounds like

"Missing when idling. Reved it up a bit and still stumbled and missed it seemed. after warming up and idling for 5-10 minutes it started to idle lower and not want to stay running."

Like this is a link and sync problem with fuelling and carbs, not anything major( unless your compression results a FUBAR)

Do compression, do Link & Sync, post results, and I am sure you'll be in great hands here!

 

[hoffmanmotors]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...

Thanks for the reply Justinde, I read the timing and carb sync thread and i think that sounds like my problem. I will give it a shot today when i go over and do a comp test. Thanks again.


-Jeff

 

[hoffmanmotors]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...

Just performed compression test. Took all plugs out, set to WOT and jumped solenoid to crank it over 5+ revolutions. Im getting 155-140-145-125. Ok numbers? Is my motor good and healthy still with the lower PSI on #4?

 

[Justinde]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...

The 125 is a tad lower than ideal. It should be within 10% of each other. Ideally. Try and re-torque your head and re-test.

If there is no change, you can also squirt some oil down the cylinder to see if that changes it- post results?

If you are concerned about it, remove the head and inspect. Still do the timimg/link & sync and change the waterpump.

Cheers

 

[hoffmanmotors]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...

Ok, i squirted a small bit of 2-stroke oil in #4 cylinder, cranked it over and got 145. Is this good news? hope so... I eventually would like to remove the head and take a peek inside, then replace the head gasket.

I did replace the water pump as i noted in my first post (works perfect) . I am going to attempt the the sync and timing right now. I will post results soon hopefully. I am dying to go out on the water soon

-Jeff

 

[Justinde]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...

Yeah. I'd remove the head. 20 psi up is a bit, and with oil in the cylinder would indicate worn rings-however- your head gasket MAY be playing a part, so I'd remove and inspect anyways.

So far as- can my engine run like this? Well, yes, it can. I have a 1988/125 with ( I think from memory) 135,135,135, and 120, and its a strong engine. I would love for Frank or Jerry to chip in here, because, they have a wealth more experince than me with these.

If it was mine, I'd start at the head gasket ( and inspect), and go from there. I may not be right in saying this, but if the cylinder looks ok, no scoring etc, I'd put a new head gasket, retorque, re check, and live with one cylinder a bit down.
I could be completely wrong, so there will be some more input to follow I'm sure.

Also- sorry I missed the new waterpump in your 1st post. Late nights, early mornings, shouldn't reply until I've read the entire post twice. My bad...

 

[hoffmanmotors]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...

I might want to tackle the head gasket soon, but im itching to try the boat out. I did get her to run and idle pretty good. I performed the link and sync as best as i could, it doesnt miss, sneeze or jerk anymore while idling. It calls for some idle adjustment in water while in gear. I will attempt this at the lake. Like i said the boat was free, i invested about $250 bucks on parts and registration so far. Not bad....

Im having a blast learning and tinkering with it. I am so glad to have found this board, very helpful and full of info! I will post a video of it running and idling soon.

Cheers
-Jeff

 

[Justinde]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...

Either way, have fun. I know when I started on this forum I was uncomfortable with tinkering, however, I am happy that I own a Force. It's easy to work on, and I havn't had a problem getting parts, and it starts up every time.

The knockers will tell you that its a 125 ( in my case) at the flywheel, and newer outboards are measured at the prop. Big whoop. Starts, runs, goes. By the way, car manufacturers still claim flywheel HP, so whatever.

Looking forward to some pics and a youtube link!

 

[hoffmanmotors]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...

Little update. Its running good when idling, but when i rev it slightly (in forward gear) it coughs and jerks a bit. Sometimes it shuts down suddenly but does restart immediately after. Is this because it is not under load? Is it not a good idea to rev it up a tad out of water?

Also when it coughs and jerks i see inside the fuel filter it splashes like its getting a burst of pressure from the cough. What does that mean? Im nervous to take it out on the water until i am POSITIVE it is running correctly. The carbs are synced, adjusted low speed needles, and timing 30 degrees BTDC @ WOT. I will take a video tomorrow after work to show it idling and coughing when reved up. TIA!

-Jeff

 

[hoffmanmotors]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!

Hers the video of a cold start. Still spits and coughs, but runs better. I still have some bugs to find and eliminate. Heres the video!
http://youtu.be/dL-s3PBwh4k

 

[Justinde]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!

Nice vid!!

Did you replace the fuel pump diaphram??

 

[hoffmanmotors]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!

Yes i did. Still surges and coughs if you rev it up to a steady RPM. Im Going to replace all fuel lines, and dive into the carbs again. Im ordering new needles and seats for it also. Im thinking of replacing the plug wires too. I hope to get it sorted out soon. Im still full of questions on this thing!

-Jeff

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!



Although electronic ignition, that engine has points within the distributor. Clean them and set the gap to .010 on a high lobe. Clean the distributor cap and look for evidence of arcing (carbon tracking). The idle is ok but it is not steady, it seems to be "galloping"

Check the distributor belt tension. A .010 feeler gauge should depress the center of the belt about 1/8 to 3/16 inch before bending.

Since the distributor rotates in relation to the rotor to advance timing, it is possible to have an excellent idle yet a misfire at higher speeds. You need to check that the pulley on top is correctly aligned with the flywheel at top dead center. The curved line should match the curve of the flywheel with the straight line pointing directly at it. You also need to check that the distributor body is in correct timing. It is possible to have everything out of adjustment yet in timing.

 

[hoffmanmotors]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!

Thanks for the replies guys. Frank, how do i check the distributor body for proper timing?

I did notice the curve on the dist pulley is perfectly aligned with the flywheel @ TDC. I did notice yesterday the points in the dist when i took off the cap. My next question was going to be what to set the gap at. The cap looked excellent inside, no signs of arcing. The missing and surging and "galloping" definitely points at ignition system, right? I must be over looking something. Im diving into it tomorrow. Will post any updates.

-Jeff_

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!



Once the pulley is aligned with the flywheel, the distributor body should be set by timing the engine to 30 or 32 before top dead center. This is the only important setting. Timing at idle can vary. However, the two plastic blocks that connect the timing tower to the distributor should be APPROXIMATELY3/8 to 1/2 inch apart. If the blocks are just about touching or are at the end of the screw travel, the distributor body is set incorrectly even though you have adjusted timing to the correct value.

Timing and component position are all interrelated. : Timing tower, ball links to carb, carb butterflies, points gap, distributor belt, and timing link to distributor.all must be set correctly for the engine to be correctly timed and to run smoothly. It is really not difficult nor is it rocket science. You simply set everything step by step.

First set the belt tension or if you have trouble working upside-down, remove the distributor to set the points. Then set the pulley at TDC and belt tension. now, using the sticky set the carbs and finally, set the timing.

In your year, Chrysler specified 32 deg. BTDC as correct timing. In later years this was reduced to 30 to compensate for low quality marina fuel. If you only use street gas, then you can pick either. If you regularly use marina fuel, stay with 30.

Now: galloping can be timing or fuel related. So, if timing does not correct the problem remove the carbs and clean them then set the low speed needles as per the sticky: Synchronizing timing and carbs. Too lean a needle setting will not only possibly cause spitting but will also cause internal engine damage (melted pistons). Thus, be certain that all carb passages are clean, set a disposable filter between the fuel pump and them, and be sure the low speed needles are set correctly.

In this photo, I have set the filter between the carbs with a tee in the line. However, anywhere between the pump and carbs is acceptable.

 

[hoffmanmotors]

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!

Re: chrysler 135 trouble, not running right...UPDATE WITH VIDEO!

Thanks a bunch Frank!