Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

[JoeFromAkron]

Hi I'm new to this forum. Every time I look up something boating related I find this site, so I figure this is the place to be.

I was hoping to get some help with a wiring question. I recently bought my first boat, but I have been around them for ever. It a 14' Chrysler Valiant with a 1976 35hp outboard. The model is 357hk and its in really good shape for the age. Someone has taken good care of it before I got it. The boat hull needs some love, but its pretty good also.

Anyhow, I was out fishing with it and almost killed the battery using a trolling motor. It barely had enough juice to start. It was all very surprising to me because the motor has a Alternator/Generator (I dont know what name to use), or at least I think it should. Also, I have taken this boat out at least 15-20 times, sometimes at night using the lights and for several hours each time. I just assumed the engine was charging the battery because I have never charged it. I did buy a new one when I got the boat.

When I got home I pulled the cover off expecting to find a loose connection or something. I was surprised to see that there was no wires from the engine going to the generator post on the terminal block that is mounted on the engine. When I bought the boat, the guy I got it from had bought the Clymer manual for it, so I got that out. I am 95% sure I found the wiring diagram, and it looks like there should be a purple wire going from the (rectifier??) a small square box to the post on the terminal block. The wire that should go from the engine to the ignition is there and it runs great.

My line of thinking might be wrong here, so tell me if so. I have started it with the pull starter once by plan and once after I put it in the water without the battery connected. If the generator did not work, the motor would not run unless it had a battery connected? Also, without a working generator, it would kill the battery, right? The battery read 12.2 volts before we used the trolling motor and I must have ran it at least 10 hours. I ran it almost nonstop one day for 3 hours. So if I'm right about that, if everything else is ok, should I be able to run the missing wire and fix my problem?

I was trying to follow the wiring diagram, but I didnt really understand exactly what connection charges the battery. There is a purple wire running up to the ignition from the motor, that is supposed to hit another terminal block and switch to a yellow wire? If that's it, there is nothing connected to it from the motor.

Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to describe the problem/what I think I know well. Thanks for helping.
Joe

 

[wickware]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

1. I have a 1970 35 HP Chrysler with a magneto ignition system w/o a charging system that will or should start w/o a Batt. I have always had a battery in the sys for the electric start but it starts fine when the Batt is down or dead with a rope. A mag sys as on old lawnmower d/n need a battery to provide fire to the engine. I feel you have a mag sys but with a Gen to recharge your Batt. Vs me using a Batt charger about every 4-6 fishing trips depending on the batt use.

2. Have you ever had the flywheel off, If so, attached is what a mag sys under the flywheel will look like. From what I think you described, ?Starting on a dead batt?, I feel you have a mag sys that will work w/o the charging sys that you also have.

3. I have no experience on the charging sys as to how it works or should be wired.

4. Have you changed your water pump?s impeller since you have owned the engine.

5. Attachments: My mag sys, Linkage side of the Carb, Tell Tale to easily see cooling water flow (55HP cover on 35) and a later ele diagram I found on line.

Too much to double check!! Lol.

 

[JoeFromAkron]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

Thanks for writing back. I have never had my flywheel off, but mine does look different than yours. One thing is the actual cover for the motor says "Alternator" on it. It could have the wrong cover, but it has a rectifier, or at least I am pretty sure it does from looking at wiring diagrams . Unless I dont understand what a rectifier does, it wouldn't have on there unless it also had some kind of charging system?

 

[wickware]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

Please share some pics of your engine with the engine?s cowl off to show close engine components. Include a pic of the engine?s wiring label with side view that identifies wire?s colors to components. A full side or rear showing lower unit and close combines of the 5 pic limits.

 

[JoeFromAkron]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

Thanks for looking. I may be wrong, but the black box under the pull cord is a rectifier, right?

 

[JoeFromAkron]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

I forgot to attach the picture of the lower unit. Sorry 'bout that. Thanks again for looking

 

[wickware]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

Thanks for the Pics! Your 1976 35 HP Chrysler engine appears a generation newer than my 1970 35 HP Chrysler. It has so many changes, most obvious the minimal linkage controls on the opposite side of the engine. I w/n be surprised if this is not an original Chrysler vs a contracted out model due to all the upgrades. This will make me open my Clymer Manual to see if I can ID this engine. As mentioned, is there any direct Chrysler ID info on the engine. The only similarity I noticed was the lower unit. From a quick glance I d/n see a 76 35 HP Chrysler on-line that would resemble the engine. Did you see a 76 Chrysler related to it? Please post a link if you did.

It appears to be a very well maintained or little used engine.

 

[JoeFromAkron]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

I think it is the original engine on the boat. It wouldn't surprise me if it was some kind of special edition or something because the boat it is on is a Chrysler Bicentennial Edition Valiant. I do know the model number is 357 HK. It has a small plate on the inside of the motor. It also has a serial number. I think it is #1057. Could be wrong about that. I have the clymer manual also and have been trying to match it up. I did some looking around tonight as far as the wiring goes. I had to do some restringing on the steering cables because it was pulling real bad to one side. It is actually wired like the diagram in the back of the book for 1983-on 35 HP Electric Start on page 406 of my manual, as far as I can tell. If that's what it is, I dont think that one has a charging system. Its just weird because the engine cover actually says "Alternator" on it, and it is a 1976 model.

I dont know much about boat engines, but I know it looks nice. Runs very nice also. It starts right up after sitting for a week if you breathe hard on the ignition. Its actually got me thinking that maybe it was rebuilt with newer parts and that's why it seems to match the 1983 diagram and not the other one on page 408, and that could also be why it looks so good? Could someone do that?

Thanks again for helping.

 

[Nordin]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

It is a 1976 Chrysler 35Hp longshaft (357HK). You can check that at Discountmarine.com for example. The ign.system is factory made. It is a batteryign.system and you need a battery to feed the ign.system (points and ign.coils). It is similare to a old automotive ign.system without an distributer (two points, two capacitors and two ign.coils)
There is a alternator/stator under the flywheel.

Your 35Hp are from the 25Hp,30Hp,35Hp enginefamily. It was interduced in 1973 as 25 and 30Hp. In 1976 the "old 35Hp" from the 35,45,55Hp family and even the 55Hp were put out of production. The 35Hp from 25,30Hp family and 55hp from 60Hp engineblock came in so from the old engine family only the 45Hp where left.
Then the 25Hp where rated down to 20Hp and the 35Hp to 30Hp. I think it was in 1979 or 1980. Not absolutly shure about the year.

 

[wickware]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

We Thank You Nordin! This is good info and maybe you can help with the earlier questions above my experience. My questions which are probably above also:

1. Will a batt ign start w/o some help from the batt ? Is batt just saying it will charge the batt? Yes to both would be my answer due to expierences with cars/OB that charged.
2. Is the diagram attached (found at the site below) related to this engine?s system?

Please excuse my poor questions from not looking back or studying due to my time.
I do remember we could push an old car with a dead batt and start it. LOL

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...F38DAD16232D9629A42EF375F4B42956EDF77&first=1

 

[Nordin]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

Yes, you can start and run a battery ign.system, BUT the battery must have enough power so it can feed the ign.system. The alternator have enough power to run the engine with a poor battery.
If you ropestart it and the battery have enough power but the charging don?t work it will die because of low power in the battery. The ign.system will runout the power in the battery.
You can check if the alternator works with measuring AC voltage from the alternator at the rectifirer. The voltage will increase up to about 16 Volt when you rev.up the engine. The alternator starts to charge from about 900 rpm and it gives 9A at about 3500rpm.
If it deliver AC voltage but the battery runs out of power the rectifirer is bad.

Your attached iwirering diagram is the 3-4cyl. Chrysler/Force with disterbuter it is not relevant for your engine.
The system on the 2 cyl. have one points and one capacitor for each cyl.
Look at maxrules.com -technicalspec.-Chrysler/Force tech.info.-wiring diagrams Chrysler-35-55Hp batteryign. w/alternator, there you have the right wiring. (The later battery ign.system used a two phase alternator, two wires from the alternator).

Wickware- Your 35Hp (old one) has no charging system. It had only magneto ign. with ropestart or electricstart from factory.
The alternator on these old 45 and 55Hp was a full three phase alternator (three wires fro the alternator).

JoeFromAkron- Your 35Hp has a two phase alternator (two wires from the alternator).

 

[JoeFromAkron]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

Nordin, Thanls a bunch. I have been trying to find a wiring diagram with no luck. At least I know where to start testing to find out what's going on. So the two yellow wires going into the rectifier are the leads from the alternator and the red wire coming off the rectifier runs to a circuit breaker and the circuit breaker to the main lead from the battery and that is the path that the battery should be getting it charge from? HaHa I think I have that right?

 

[wickware]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

Thanks Again Nordin! Over & Out Joe! Will be watching, Send Fish And Cooler Weather To North Tx. LOL

 

[JoeFromAkron]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

Well I have ran the boat several times for about 4 hours or so. I couldn't really test the voltage from the rectifier. My girlfriend was with me and did not exactly feel comfortable with my fiddling around with the engine while we are on the water But I did rig up a voltmeter and my fish finder also has a volt display. The voltage stayed at 12.4 to 12.6. It did put out slightly higher voltage when running. My uneducated guess is that I must have just drained to much off the battery with the electric trolling motor, because I have not had a single problem after I recharged the battery. That and I assume running the engine for 4 hours would cause a noticeable drop in voltage, if the alternator was not charging.

Thanks to everyone for helping me.

P.S. Wickware, I still have not had a good day fishing off this boat. It's been super hot here also so nothing seems to be biting. I tried to go to Lake Erie one day but the waves were to high so I couldn't go out past the breakwall and still feel safe! Next time!

 

[wickware]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

?You can check if the alternator works with measuring AC voltage from the alternator at the rectifirer. The voltage will increase up to about 16 Volt when you rev.up the engine. The alternator starts to charge from about 900 rpm and it gives 9A at about 3500rpm.
If it deliver AC voltage but the battery runs out of power the rectifirer is bad.?

Per Nordin?s info above: I have always looked for at least 13+ V on car?s alternator sys. Or! Disconnected the batt to see of the cars would continue to run. If advised disconnecting is Safe and OK (if the ignition sys depended on the charging sys to run vs mag ignition). Low 12V sounds low to be charging good IMO. If it moved up, possibly you d/n test at a high enough RPM. I feel I could run 4+ hrs on my batt w/o charging on my Mag sys that does not charge. My batt is only used for starting and lights vs running off the batt.

Nordin and Others, Would disconnecting the batt be advised and safe to see if the eng is running off the alternator charging sys of batt? Or! Is it better to test at a higher RPM with all connected??

Thanks for the cooler 76 degrees in North Tx this morning!!

 

[Nordin]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

Wickware The answer is yes and no. It depends what kind of ign. system you have. If you have the Motorola/Delta Magnapower ign. that must have 12V from the battery to charge the capacitor in the CD module the answer is NO. Because when you disconnect the battery that act like a big accumulator, the voltage raise and you can fried the CD and the rectifier. Some of this system had a regulator too but do not take a chance.

If you have a Prestolite Magnapower system that have a selfenergise system for the capacitor (statorwinding under the flywheel) it is okey. BUT be ware of not run with out battery for so long time. As I says the battery act like a big accumulator and holddown the voltage. You can fried the rectifire.

Then if you have a magneto or battery ign.system the answer is yes but be ware of the rectifirer. You can damage it.

 

[wickware]

Re: Chrysler 357HK Alternator/Generator wiring

1. The safest test is to rely on the voltmeter reading w/o disconnecting the Batt period.

2. In that case you should look for approx 13+V above 900 rpm to hope it?s charging.

3. I am use to seeing charging voltage climb with the RPM to 13.5 V + to insure charging.