Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

[Ike-110722]

Coast Guard to warn boaters in Puget Sound with flashbang

* December 13th, 2010 8:19 pm ET


Pleasure craft boaters in Puget Sound often idle up to barges and tankers unaware that they are ?too close for comfort?. Starting today, the Coast Guard will give them a reminder to back off.
http://www.examiner.com/military-co...rd-to-warn-boaters-puget-sound-with-flashbang

 

[seabob4]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

Never mind. I have very little desire to be near big ships, especially when they are moving...at speed. They have really big wakes, you know...

 

[Outsider]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

So it begins, the Government opening fire on citizens! First flash-bangs. Then what, bean bags? Pepper? Buckshot? 50 cal?

If the egregiousness warrants flash-bangs, then start citing dumb boaters and taking their boats. Let there be compelling financial consequences if you really, really want compliance ...

 

[AGENT 37]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

No you got it wrong; there's no bean bags, pepper, or buckshot involved: it's flash bangs, then the 50 cal to disable the vessel, and only if fire is returned that same 50 cal disabling tool is used to ultimately disable the perpetrators.

You'd be surprised just how many of ignorant boaters infringe on the security exclusion zones and force right of way vessels to to change course or come dead in the water.

The flash bang is intended as an attention-getting communication device for numb-knutted-knuckle-chucks running along fat-dumb-and-happy with no clue of what they are doing and no understanding that somebody is trying to deter them from a dangerous situation. It is a tool to determine intent, mitigate risk, and/or increase situational awareness.

We use them to educate bears instead of just killing them when the become a problem.

Every day will be like the 4th of July in Puget Sound.....

 

[mcgyver210]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

WOW I can see this tactic getting someone hurt or worse with a bunch of excuses from the Government agency.

Everyday I see a very disturbing trend when Law Enforcement is more like an enemy to civilians, to be feared but not respected.

To think I at one time really wanted to be a LEO & now I don't even want to talk to most without a recorder on me.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

Ya' gotta' admit, there's a bunch of stupid boaters out there that make it miserable for everyone else.

Wonder if I could put my hands on some flash-bangs for attention getting when a jet ski gets too close when I'm pulling a skier.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

They just need to give them a copy of this book:

"How To Avoid Huge Ships" by John Trimmer.

http://www.amazon.com/Avoid-Huge-Ships-John-Trimmer/dp/0870334336

Unfortunately it's sold out on Amazon.com right now, but it has great reviews!

 

[jollymon]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

I want to know what each one of those flashbangs cost and what the cost of the 50 cal rounds are? If it is cheaper why not just start with the 50 cal round!

Come on now if someone is getting that close to a large vessel, do you think day time fireworks are going to mean anything to them, they might get closer so they can see the fireworks better.

 

[sublauxation]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

The flash bangs would be fun to watch from a distance! I'm guessing if caught on video, the reactions of poeple would be America's Funniest Home Videos worthy.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

I'm certain the point of the warning shot is not the safety of the boater but the security of the ship. Remember the Cole; a small vessel approaching a target ship is a perceived threat, to be met with deadly force.
I live and boat in a harbor town with a large military presence--as well as a large knucklehead presence. There are radio warnings when a military vessel is underway, to stay away or face deadly force. The cruise ships are heavily guarded and I have been chased away even when I was far from them (took friends out to see their son who was on board). The patrol boats along the navy piers often shadow you when you pass by even though they have floating fences around the vessels. And you should have seen it on 9/12!
I have often been concerned about the loaded 50's and other arms pointing this way and that, in the middle of a crowded urban area. There have been a couple of reported accidental firings and I am certain a lot of unreported ones. Right now, I look out my window at the Battleship Wisconsin's big guns pointed straight at me, from 6 blocks away, but supposedly they aren't loaded.
Harbor security is serious business. The bad guys will look just like the knuckleheads and will get close--and then attack. The guys responsible for guarding are in the worse position if they have to make that life or death decision. IIRC the boat that attacked the Cole was displaying an American flag, and saluting as they approached the hull.
BTW no ship has to stop or turn for the small boats, and few can. They just roll right over them.

 

[sublauxation]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

Everyday I see a very disturbing trend when Law Enforcement is more like an enemy to civilians, to be feared but not respected.

To think I at one time really wanted to be a LEO & now I don't even want to talk to most without a recorder on me.

I wont be involved in an argument, I wont post on this topic again, but I WONT let that pass. I hope you show better character by doing the same unless it's to offer an apology to field officers out there.

If you have a problem with policy, go after the policy maker, they're elected. Do not go after the guys in the field. There are some bad officers out there, but with what they deal with on a daily basis, it's amazing they all aren't jaded.

My brothers car has been shot up, he's been shot at multiple times and hit once(those vests work great). He's been beaten up, spit on, bitten, kicked, had rocks thrown at him, called names, been threatened......all in the name of keeping citizens safe from themselves and from others, and in maintaining peace and order. He is NOT an enemy to the citizens, and to say that displays a high level of ignorance and lack of respect for what you have and the opportunity given to you in this country.

 

[1fishbone]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

The Government needs to step back and let the Darwin Effect go to work:

Boater gets too close...wave swamps them and all idiots die.
Hiker oversteps their limits gets stuck on mountain and doesn't have his/her own backup helicopter rescue...hiker dies.
Person doesn't try to support themselves...they die.

Within a few generations, all lazy idiots are dead! (Period)

 

[45Auto]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

Everyday I see a very disturbing trend when Law Enforcement is more like an enemy to civilians, to be feared but not respected.

I wont be involved in an argument, I wont post on this topic again, but I WONT let that pass. I hope you show better character by doing the same unless it's to offer an apology to field officers out there

Up to you whether you want to post on it or not, but McGyver210 is right. I was an LEO until a couple of years ago, got out of it because of the change in attitude within the department. The vast majority now seem to be "military wannabe's". Maybe your brother is one of the good ones, but unfortunately it seems that he will be in the minority. If the majority of law enforcement treats citizens like their enemy, the citizens will respond appropriately.

 

[Chincoteaguer]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

Ever been in a bad situation and a policeman (LEO?) came along and made things right? Just has to happen once for most people to get the idea. Flash bangs are perferable to OH NO!

 

[Fisherball]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

WOW I can see this tactic getting someone hurt or worse with a bunch of excuses from the Government agency.

I can see a lot less injuries than would be caused by collisions & accidents. Injuries to people not being stupid. If the idiots are doing dangerous stuff than this will protect them from their own stupidity.

 

[dsiekman]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

Wonder if I could put my hands on some flash-bangs for attention getting when a jet ski gets too close when I'm pulling a skier.

That would be great! I bet they'd also be useful for the sailboats who think they have the right of way even when under power. That's one of my favorites.

I had some idiots on paddle boards (?) try to get themselves killed my last trip out. Busy harbor on a busy weekend, lots of boat traffic of all shapes and sizes, and these morons are not only getting in everyone's way, they aren't paying attention to anything. I had to throw it in reverse to stop because one cut across in front of me and while waiting for him to clear another one nearly t-boned me! I was so irritated I decided to get on plane and out of the way. Granted, firewalling the twins wasn't exactly the most polite thing to do, but come on!

I like to follow the law of common sense and self preservation. In other words, I give a wide clearance to anything bigger than the vehicle I happen to be in - bus, semi, cruise ship, whatever. Your argument for being "in the right" doesn't mean much when pinned in your toyota prius that's squashed under a log truck...

 

[oops!]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

actually they are just using boaters as an excuse to fish with flash bangs.

sorry to make light of this.....imho....this is very serious.
all implications aside.....

why are they using a device intended to stun......in a situation where stunning would be the last thing they want to do????

 

[mcgyver210]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

I haven't been a boater long at all but from reading here I already see that Coast Guard & Water LEOs can abuse the citizens & get away with even more than Land LEOs. I was very surprised to find out while taking Boater Safety test they can board & search with no PC under the guise of safety which is in a word a cop-out & mostly revenue producing tactics IMO. Which means in most situations it will be your word against theirs so best tactic is to do as most of them do to us & assume they are not good (remember how many times we are told they are the way they are for their safety before you attack my statement).

For these reasons I always have a recorder on me for any interaction with government agents where I feel uneasy. Now in my local area I rarely feel this way since I know & respect most of the LEOs I run into.

As for being close to bigger boats or ships I do agree this could be a serious & life threatening problem same as when I am driving my companies larger truck & 4 wheelers cut in front giving me no room to stop safely among other things they do everyday. This is one of the reason my vehicles are equiped with Video surveillance which has protected my company legally.

I wont be involved in an argument, I wont post on this topic again, but I WONT let that pass. I hope you show better character by doing the same unless it's to offer an apology to field officers out there.

I standby my original statement & there will be no apology or argument. But just to be clear I am not Anti Good LEO although I am Anti Bad or Abuse of authority LEO.

If you have a problem with policy, go after the policy maker, they're elected. Do not go after the guys in the field. There are some bad officers out there, but with what they deal with on a daily basis, it's amazing they all aren't jaded.

I do Vote & I also exercise my right to express my opinion same as you have with your statement which I don't agree with but for which I am not asking for an apology from you for your attack on my character.

As for what they deal with they know the job or should when they take the oath so not an excuse to be jaded or bad IMO.

Up to you whether you want to post on it or not, but McGyver210 is right. I was an LEO until a couple of years ago, got out of it because of the change in attitude within the department. The vast majority now seem to be "military wannabe's". Maybe your brother is one of the good ones, but unfortunately it seems that he will be in the minority. If the majority of law enforcement treats citizens like their enemy, the citizens will respond appropriately.

Great Response!

Ever been in a bad situation and a policeman (LEO?) came along and made things right? Just has to happen once for most people to get the idea. Flash bangs are perferable to OH NO!

Have you ever noticed how supposed Non Lethal deter-ants can quickly become abused & lethal?

 

[dingbat]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

I'm certain the point of the warning shot is not the safety of the boater but the security of the ship. Remember the Cole; a small vessel approaching a target ship is a perceived threat, to be met with deadly force.

I take it that people living outside heavy security zones like we do don?t know that a lot of craft have mandated security zones around them. It's either flash bang or a 50 cal, your choice.

For those of you that don?t know:

Ferries and other Passenger Carrying Vessels: Operate your vessel at minimum speed when within 500 yards and do not approach within 100 yards. If you must approach within 100 yards to comply with the Navigation Rules you must contact the Master of the vessel or the Coast Guard escort vessels or other on scene escort vessels on VHF-FM channel 13 or 16 for instructions. Do not approach within 25 yards of a moored passenger vessel. 33-CFR-1317

Navy Vessels: Operate your vessel at minimum speed when within 500 yards and do not approach within 100 yards. If you must approach within 100 yards to comply with the Navigation Rules you must contact the Navy Vessel or the Coast Guard Escort Vessels on VHF Channel 16 for permission and instructions. 33-CFR-1321

Tank Ships: Operate your vessel at minimum speed when within 500 yards and do not approach within 100 yards. If you must approach within 100 yards to comply with the Navigation Rules you must contact the Tank Ship or the Coast Guard Escort Vessels on VHF-FM Channel 13 or 16 for permission and instructions. 33-CFR-1313

 

[sublauxation]

Re: Coast Guard To Warn Boats with FlashBang

Didn't mean it as a character rip, that probably came off harsher than it was meant. I ever see you on the water we can laugh about it over a cold beer, I'm buying.