Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

stephentyler20

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
117
Hi all... Summer's over, the boat is back home, and I'm planning round 2 of overhaul, modification, and upgrade. Last winter, I replaced the carpeting in my boat - a very intensive project considering EVERYTHING in the cockpit is wrapped in carpet. It came out great!

So of course, now I want to do it all over again! No actually, my plan this winter is to remove the carpeting altogether, and rebuild the cockpit from the floorboards up. My primary goal is to convert the carpeted sole to a gel coat surface, as seen in most newer boats, since the carpet is 1) not too modern a look, 2) impossible to keep clean, and 3) IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP CLEAN.

Here is my plan of action, based on my limited knowledge of this type of project. I'd appreciate feedback. Keep in mind, under the carpet my boat is 'glassed in plywood, and is quite rough/abrasive. Simply painting that surface would result in huge imperfections. There are also occasional "lumps" in the fiberglass. The pictures below show the surface with the carpet removed, from last winter.

My tentative, and subject to change, plan:
1. Strip out the interior - seats, vinyl panels, engine cover, out.

2. Remove carpeting, using caution - in case this goes awry, I'd like to be able to put it right back in again.

3. Grind/flatten the fiberglass floor as much as possible. Specifically, I'd like to focus on the lumpy areas, and try to get it flat.

4. Apply a marine fairing compound, whose purpose would be to level the floor/sides, and give me a suitable surface to apply gel coat.

5. Sand the crap out of the fairing compound until a flat surface is achieved.

6. Paint the newly leveled surface, using a skid-free type gel coat paint.

7. Replace interior (another project).

Thoughts on this? Does this seem like a viable project, or is there too much room for error? The biggest problem I can see is not being able to level the surface enough. I.e., this might require replacing all the floorboards, which I'm not prepared to do.

Pictures of the cockpit sans carpet:
Photo_022008_015.jpg

Photo_022008_010.jpg


Pictures with the new carpet installed:
n8702634_31216123_7765.jpg
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

what you are suggesting is very possible....except for one thing...well mabe 2

you will not be able to save the carpet......forget that idea...youll tear it to shreads taking it out.

inspect the deck very carefully for rot or soft spots....if you find any....fix it now.....or you will have to rip the entire boat apart in a season or two.

as far as the bumps in the glass.....just grind them down flat....then take a sander with 120 grit and keeping it moving, sand the glass some what smooth.....vaccume and clean with aceitone.

if you wish you can add a finishing veil of 6 oz woven cloth over a layer of .75 oz csm

forget the fairing compound....youll be there for weeks...trust me ! :eek:

take some gellcoat with 5% acietone.....(and a product called patch aid from composits one)....mix the patch aid at 10 %....it will lower the viscosity of the gellcoat.....(do not go over the 5% aceitone...measure carefully...all too often 5% becomes 30 and you will have a weak job)

pour some gellcoat on the floor....take a squeegee and spread the gellcoat around....dont push too hard....the gellcoat will fill any areas and take out some lows......let cure....

after its hardened....approx 1 hr..

mix gellcoat same as before....take a paint roller...and paint the floor with gellcoat...avoid "building up" areas....

let fully cure......

using 400 grit....sand down any sharp peaks in the gellcoat.....

the fuzzy roller will give you a natural non slip surface on the gellcoat....you might not even have to sand it with 400 as the patchaid and the aceitone will lower the viscosity enoufgh that the gellcoat will flow someone what and ther might not be any sharp peaks....

btw....i will be doing the exact same thing to my boat in about a week or two.

cheers
oops
 

stephentyler20

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
117
Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

Thanks for the tips...

- re: the carpet - I'm optimistic. I removed the original carpeting, and I could have reinstalled that if I wanted to. It came out pretty easily. The new carpet isn't bonded nearly as well as that was.

- About the sanding - the problem with that is, I tried to sand it last year, and it was damn near impossible. The 'glass was so solid, I really couldn't make a dent in it. If I had simply gel coated that how it was, the result would have been terrrrrible.

- Why would the fairing compound be a bad idea? I thought the point of that stuff was to give me a flat surface to work on...

- Also keep in mind it's not JUST the floor, but the sides as well. Currently, the carpet extends across the floor and up the sides of the boat. Putting paint on the sides would be a difficult, messy job.
 

Nova II 260

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
681
Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

Stephen did you read this? Might be your fix.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=279757&highlight=walnut+shells

Quote from another post:.....
Removing Glue: Depending on the glue (type) you can try using dry ice. I used it on various glues (tile, carpet, etc) and works pretty well and is a clean release. Use caution and be safety conscience. Put it in a pie pan or cookie sheet and on the glued area. It'll become brittle. A putty knife will remove it and you can vacuum it up the chips.
I hope for you that bad carpet is the only problem.


Good Luck and let us know.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=280214&highlight=removing+carpet+glue
 

stephentyler20

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
117
Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

Thanks, but I'm looking specifically to smooth out and paint the existing floor so that it's a more typical boat sole.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

glass can be sanded.....actually qiute easily.......just use 120 grit on a sander....not by hand.....

the farring compound will work it sands easily.....but i just did my hull with it.....3 months hard labor .......mind you ....it was my first time

you will need a long board.....and 120 of possibly 80 grit......but 80 might chew thru.

the reason for the gellcoat squgee trick is to by pass that stage....the gellcoat will really smooth everything out fill any minor gaps or holes.

it works....trust me ;)
 

stephentyler20

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
117
Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

oops!, can you elaborate on the squeegee trick? What type of squeegee does that require, and how flat and smooth will the sole have to be for it to work? I'm certainly intrigued, if you say I'll get better results with less work, I'm listening!
 

wewefirex2x

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
267
Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

Stephen, What kind of boat is that? I have been outside all morning tearing the interior out of my 1989 Monterey which appears to be somewhat identical to yours. How did you remove the side panels? My side panels have a bolt running through the top but I dont see nor feel a nut. Is there a trick? Thanls Mike
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Messages
12,932
Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

one of the top por gellcoat guys told me about the trick.....


standard squeegee....the longer the better...

just get it somewhat smooth by sanding the fiberglass.....

(btw.....what kind of sander are you using?)......dont worry about any low spots....make sure the "hi's" are knocked down....(grinder)...(imperfections in the glass where you may have glassed over a rock or such)

pour on some gellcoat.....(mix catylest as per manufacturers instructions)
and lightly spread it around the deck.....if you have any low spots....just go lightly over then.....dont use the squeegee like you are doing windows....very lightly......you will see the gellcoat flow into all holes and give you somewhat of a flat surface......(dont let the gellcoat build up any hi ridges......make sure you run your squeegee over every inch...so there is no un touched spots....

you are not looking to turn the whole floor white at this point....just use a little gell coat at this point....say mabe a half a cup per 4 foot sections.

you might want to experiment with a glassed peice of plywood before so you know what to expect.

after that cures hard.....1 hr or so.....then pull out your fuzzy roller and tray and make the floor white !.....dont go to thick....just cover the areas.

i will be doing this process....possibly as soon as monday....as it is a holiday here.......ill get pics (its tough to get pics when the catylest hits the resin)
of the entire process......

cheers
oops....

btw......there might be a pick or two on the hull ext thread around page 65 ish....(just before the float)
 

stephentyler20

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 13, 2008
Messages
117
Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

oops... First, I spent an obscene amount of time reading your hull extension thread today... I'm thoroughly impressed, and have officially subscribed to the thread. I will anxiously look forward to seeing how your floor project goes!

Also when I first tried sanding the floor, I was using a random-orbit sander, I think with 60 or 80 grit, and the results were imperceptible. The floor is really hard - that is, it's a mixture of old glue and old fiberglass. I'm not sure how smooth I can really get it. I did not, however, attempt to use a grinder, which I'm sure would be necessary on some of the more serious elevations. Is there a risk of grinding too much on the sidewalls and going through to the other side? I'm not very experienced at this, so that makes me a bit nervous. Should I switch to a belt sander?

Do you think it would be wise to lay up some new glass first, and then try and get that smooth? It seems that way I'd be creating my own surface to work with, as opposed to rectifying the old crud.

wewefirex2x said:
Stephen, What kind of boat is that? I have been outside all morning tearing the interior out of my 1989 Monterey which appears to be somewhat identical to yours. How did you remove the side panels? My side panels have a bolt running through the top but I dont see nor feel a nut. Is there a trick? Thanls Mike

Weweefirex2x... This is a 1988 Wellcraft 210 Classic - so probably a similar boat to yours indeed. The side panels were a PAIN when I didn't know how to remove them, but now they're only slightly annoying to remove.

Here's how mine are attached... Running bow to stern, there are about 5 or 6 bolts that go through the fiberglass on the other side, and have a nut attached (the head to these bolts is inaccessible, buried in the vinyl). Removing those nuts, however, does NOT free up the panel altogether. My panels also have about 12-20 little plastic barb-style clips that simply insert into holes in the fiberglass. Removing these requires brute force, and unfortunately, the plastic barbs break pretty easily.

I would wager the bolts in yours probably just add stability, and that you probably have the little plastic barb-clips (is that clear?) as well... If so, you might be able to reach under and feel them on the other side protruding out slightly, or you might not. Frankly, this will probably require brute force.

For the record, I'm pretty intent on removing those panels this winter, and either customizing new ones or just fixing up and repainting the fiberglass on the other side (for a much more nautical look).
 

wewefirex2x

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
267
Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

Thanks Stephen, I can barely get my head in there to look. I will try a flashlight this weekend to see if I can tell what is exactly holding them in.
 

stephentyler20

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 13, 2008
Messages
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Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

Yeah and don't be afraid to stick your hands back there and feel around carefully. That's ultimately how I found the little plastic barbs, whereas looking with a flashlight didn't reveal them at all.
 

stephentyler20

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 13, 2008
Messages
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Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

oops and others, another quick question that seems fairly silly... I still don't really get what gel coat is. Is it resin? Is it paint? Where do I find it? Is there polyester vs. epoxy gel coat? I don't quite understand the concept.

I understand the properties of gel coat (durable, porous, etc.) but not its makeup!
 

i386

Captain
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Messages
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Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

Gel coat is polyester resin + pigments + other stuff. When a glass boat is made, gelcoat is sprayed into the boat mold that's been treated with a mold release agent. Then the glass is added. When the hull is popped out of the mold, it's already "finished".
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

gellcoat can be purchased from most plastics or fiberglass shops....if you order on line.....comp one or us comp....they may even have it here at i boats.

386 is totally correct.....

when you spread it...it is like a super thick paint....it will not flow like regular paints.......it can be thinned.....but not much.....3% with aceitone....be aware....all too often 3% magicly grows to 30 % and the job is ruined....

find the patch aid from comp one....it will help lower the viscosity...patch aid can be mixed at 10 %......but in all cases....follow the manufacturers instructions to the t.........

by the way.....mix all ingreidants seperately very thouroughly....shake or stirr the gellcoat for at least 5 mins before you add the other ingreaidalnts.
 

stephentyler20

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
117
Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

Thanks for the clarification there - so gel coat is basically tinted resin... I see.

Oops et al, let me run another idea by you that someone at work suggested to me - not disagreeing with you, just brainstorming. What he suggested is similar, I think, to how you did your hull on the extension.

His idea: sand/grind down the existing floor. Then add resin, layup with a layer or two of fiberglass. Then, he suggests, add another layer of resin for smoothness, and fill that in with fairing compound (what he referred to as Bondo, I assume the same thing). After that, sand lightly to achieve maximum smoothness, and apply paint. Finally, mask appropriate areas and add no-skid layer in the centerline (an idea which I like, so only the walking areas are no skid).

Maybe I'm beating the dead horse here, but what do you think? I guess the only real difference is he suggests doing another fiberglass layer for reinforcement, and the "bondo" to really get the surface even - but just a thin layer, to fill in the lows.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

in theroy its a good idea.....but it will seriously weaken the deck.

resin by it self is really brittle......(gellcoat is not)

after you put on the finishing ceil of cloth it will be really smooth.
(the veil is a really fine woven cloth) the squeegee trick will fill any minor areas.....

but if you really want to use a fairring compound......there is one called poly fair....the ones with chopped strand wont work in your applcation.
dont go thick at all....you should be able to see the majority of the glass under neath the compound.......look at the hull ext after the final layer of glass was added to the hull i added a final layer of compound to the hull....after it was on ...i was told by the pro....(onarvr) that it was unnessary....i could have just squeegeed it

the hull ext has detiled pics......make sure when you add the cayt....you mix it really good......

but it is expencive...and the only way to get it flat is to use a 6 foot longboard. and at the best you will get some areas flat but kelowna rocketsou will inevitably just make high areas and low spots (+/-) 7 /16 ths of an inch.

but it looks like i will be done before you.....im just a few hours from gelling my deck......so ill take detailed pics for you

cheers
oops
 

stephentyler20

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 13, 2008
Messages
117
Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

Oohhhh I think I'm getting you now... So I should do the resin, then a cloth veil layer wetted out, and once that's cured I can just add the gel coat on top of that? And the gel coat should fill in the lows... But I should at least sand down the veil fiberglass cloth right?

Also will I need a primer?
 

i386

Captain
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Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

Oops! is telling you how to do it. I don't know if that means he's recommending though.;)
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Cockpit sole re-do - viable project? Tips?

Oohhhh I think I'm getting you now... So I should do the resin, then a cloth veil layer wetted out, and once that's cured I can just add the gel coat on top of that? And the gel coat should fill in the lows... But I should at least sand down the veil fiberglass cloth right?

Also will I need a primer?

you should not need to sand the final layer of veil.....make sure you are using a laminating resin...and you gell coat it after its been cured for a few hours....dont wait too long.

in between after you nave done the final veil on the floor....take a straight edge....and skim the top of the veil job, if the straight edge picks up a high spot, just grind it....

just pretend you are doing some drywalling...You need a smooth flat surface....no nail heads poking thru...when its done....just do a skin coat with paint......NO PRIMER....then paint as uasual
 
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