Cooling Pump Seals

[saltydogjeff]

Finally got my engine running - for like the past two weeks. I've really been bugging about the health of the engine, because all the signs point to some sort of flaw. Like, steam coming from the time valve cover therefore, coolant in the oil - check. (Doesn't mean that I am happy)

Me 24 hours ago - it is either a head gasket or cracked block.

Pumped up the coolant system with the radiator testing tool from AutoZone, 11 psi at start with engine cold and dropped to about 10 psi over 1 hour. Started the engine up, coolant pressure built up to about 7 psi at operating temp and held steady even after cooldown dropping back as things cooled down.

I was running the scenario through my head, and THINK I got it figured out this morning.

There is that area up front of the engine where the cooling pump is close to the engine oil. Like there are a couple of seals that separate the oil from the coolant. I think I am on the right track. Then I started researching, heard about this weeping hole that I was not too sure where it is located. I THINK the weep hole actually exhausts between the two seals. Its like oil][seal][void space with weeping hole][seal][coolant with pump.

I got some pictures.





I put my hand under there and find a bolt. Right in it. I got my cool but this is not cool.

Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1 , stonyloam What experience do you have with this issue? I have been reading about this thing, and it sounds like it is not too difficult but delicate in maintaining the oil pan gasket and prevention of damaging the cover when press fitting seals. Have I got this one diagnosed?

 

[stonyloam]

On the 470 engine the impeller for the engine water pump is bolted to the end of the camshaft. There are two seals in there that ride on the camshaft to keep coolant from entering the crankcase. You are right, the weep hole drains the space between the seals, so that when the front seal fails the coolant under pressure enters the space and leaks out of the weep hole. Since the pressure is relieved by the weep hole the second seal will keep the coolant from leaking into the crankcase. The hole must be kept open to let leaking coolant out. The hole is located on the lower starboard side of the pump cover. It is just a small hole, see if you can find it and use a small wire or probe to make sure it is open, sometimes people will plug the hole to stop the "leak". If it is clear and no coolant comes out when the engine is running and up to temperature then your seals are OK. Both seals face the coolant and are designed to keep the coolant out of the oil, not the oil out of the coolant, because there is no oil under pressure that contacts the seals from the engine side.

 

[saltydogjeff]

The thing I circled is the coolant drain. I thought that was the weep hole. That is the same thing that I thought was plugged.... I think I just found the weep hole. I am also pretty far into it so here are some pictures. I took the coolant pump housing cover off. I got all the bolts loose besides the ones on the oil pan. I got my 1/2" socket and razor for the gasket ready to go with those. As far as it is going, everything looks well. It will provide a good time to clean up and paint some of these parts... but I hope it solves my original issue of the coolant and oil. It does not seem like the weep hole is plugged, but I need to pull the cover off to inspect further. As can be seen in the pictures, nothing was plugging the weep hole, which now gives me some concern as to why the coolant was with the oil in the first place.

I don't know why these pictures always load at weird angles.... but, theres a picture with the coolant pump housing off.

Alternator, harmonic balancer, balancer puller kit (Autozone), and then the cooling pump impeller in the housing.

There is my corrected picture of the weep hole. Nothing obviously plugged. Going to take the timing cover off and inspect. That will provide good access to inspect any issues.

 

[stonyloam]

OK, that is not the weep hole. See the first photo. The bolt sticking out. That is the front seal, and the weep hole is behind that seal and comes out on the starboard side of that cover. It is small a little over 1/16 inch in diameter. Here is a photo, the green dot https://www.google.com/search?q=470...0+front+cover+weep+hole&imgrc=cMzH1TIUtBkwFM:

 

[saltydogjeff]

Here is a weep hole.



It was partially clogged. I took a small allen wrench and jabbed it a couple of times to clean it out.


Please take a look at my shaft and seals in the pictures below. I believe the shaft is made like that with the two groves... I do not think that is wear. I do think the colored part is wear, but by touch there is no indentation of the sort or groove. Is there like a go/no go for using speedi sleeves?


That is the seal on the oil side (aft seal). It looks a little far inwards, as in not flush with the cover. Could this block the weep hole? It is also easy to see in that picture the passageway for the weep hole.

There's a picture of the front seal.

Finally, a picture of my timing chain. What is a good way to check this out for being taut enough?

 

[stonyloam]

That looks like it has Spedisleeves sleeves on it already, so you should be good. I am not sure but I think the seals are in backwards. To instal them correctly BOTH SEALS SHOULD FACE THE COOLANT, AWAY FROM THE BLOCK. That means the garter springs of the seals face the coolant, away from the block. Press the rear seal in until it bottoms out, then press the front seal in until it is flush with the surface of the cover. Check to see that the weep hole is clear. The large seal on the crank needs to be replaced too, that one the garter spring should face the block to keep the oil in. There is a spring tensioner on the chain, make sure rhe nylon block is up against the chain not completely worn out and holding some tension. Don't think it is adjustable, and is no longer available, but from the photo it doesn't look bad.

 

[saltydogjeff]

Yes, away from the block.

I went and checked out the timing cover and both of the springs that provide the sealing were facing the weep hole. So, the aft seal was in correctly and the forward seal was in backwards. Crank seal faces oil.

The inner sealing portion of the camshaft which appears to have a Speedi Sleeve has a lip on the inner portion of the shaft. It is very small and hard to see in the picture. This gives me the signs that it is a Speedi Sleeve and that lip was used during installation.

Thank you for the help... I am going to take a look at parts to make sure I get the right things.

 

[stonyloam]

Yeah I think some folks instal 2 Spedisleeves to cover the area of both seals. If it is done correctly you can leave a bit of the driving lip on the inner sleeve, but the installer needs to remove all of the lip off of the outer sleeve so that when you instal the seals the inner seal will not be damaged when you slide the cover on over the outer sleeve. Looks like the installer did a pretty good job if you have two sleeves on the cam. Have fun.

 

[saltydogjeff]

Got the parts in the mail today. Currently cleaning everything up, trying to put a fresh coat of paint on what I got off.

Question: Do both coolant seals on the crankshaft go in through the front (forward) of the timing chain cover? I am not experienced in pressing stuff.... and before I pay Joe to go press it... I want to make sure I can give direction too. Haven't pulled the last ones out either. Anybody got some recommendations so I could perform both evolutions? ...Checked out Merc Manual #3 and it doesn't have much for info... but I would think they are pressed one from one side, one from the other, both facing outwards. I think all I need is a properly sized tube and some soft hands to press this thing :cat:.

Need to get some of that 2-4-C.

 

[stonyloam]

Yes they are both pressed in from the front. The inner seal is driven all the way until it seats. The outer seal is driven until it It's flush with the surface of the cover. There should be a space between the two, and you should be able to push a toothpick or wire through the weep hole and see it come out between the two seals. I used appropriate sized socket to drive in the inner seal and a flat piece of wood to drive the outer seal flush with the cover surface (did not want to drive it in too far). just carefully drive them out from the back, be sure to support the cover really well so you don't crack the aluminum casting.