Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

kwoolard

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I have a 1974 888 302 Mercruiser with which I have been battling overheating problems for the past year. I currenlty have the center rise manifold and riser setup using the old three hose style used with the oem log style manifolds. I have generated a couple of threads on this topic in the past and appreciate all the help/advice that I recieved. However, I am still having this same problem. All manifolds have been removed, cleaned and inspected. I replaced the thermostat and outdrive impeller. However, I had a question regarding the gasket between the manifold and riser. The cooling water flows into the rear of the exhaust manifold, out the front of the manifold, into the thermostat housing and is then routed overboard through the riser. My question is, does the block off gasket that I should be using between the manifold and the riser be completely blocking off all water flow or should there be a small hole in the gasket to release any air pockets that could build up? Would have a block off gasket cause this overheating?
 

Don S

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

While cleaning a manifold or riser sounds good, you can't always get to the area's in them that are plugged up. You also didn't mention cleaning the riser, did you????<br />Another bad part of cleaning them is the reason they get plugged to begin with. It's from rust and scale flaking off the block and the manifolds, then plugging the holes. Where the rust flakes off in the manifolds, may leave a hole in the web between the exhaust and the water.<br />Who knows, you may have a blockage in the water pickup tube that goes through the transom shield.<br />If you have already posted about this problem several times, how about a list of all the things you have done and checked so we don't have to go through the same things a second or third time.
 

cmyers_uk

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

This quote came from Rodbolt and its worth a second post <br /><br />
narrow it down and eliminate each subsytem as a culprit and Voilia it will be fixed
Start at the point the water enters the drive and test each system ticking them off as you go. You will eventually find the subsystem that contains the lack of cooling and as per Rodbolt Voilia its fixed. In my case it was a blockage in the elbow feeding water to the exhaust manifold. A infra red temperature gun really helps to find the hot spots.
 

Mahoney

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

I think don had a post with a pic of the riser/manifold connection, the manifold will have small channels running the perimeter of the main exaust channel. If you replaced a gasket there and it covers these holes, than the only thing escaping out your manifolds is exaust. I think a nother way to tell this is when you are running on muffs on the trailer, after the engine is warm, there should be water spraying out the Exhaust escape in the sterndrive. this water should be hot, if there is never any water escaping out there after warm engine, you got a blockage.
 

Boatist

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

I do not know what your are calling a block off gasket. If it is the gasket between the exhaust manifold and the riser then the gasket should not block any water passages. It should seal the water passages from the exhaust passages but all water passages should be completely open.<br /><br />Question why did you start a new thread. Would have been better to continue old thread so everyone can tell what you have done or at least list all trouble shooting steps you have done and the results.
 

waterone1@aol.com

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

I'm not familiar with this exact setup, however I would point out that the gasket between the exhaust manifold and elbow is specific to the setup. Your dealer, or a website such as www.mercurypartsexpress can determine which gasket to use by supplying the serial number of the engine. In general, the gasket water passages are open. If you have a riser kit installed, I believe two of the passages are blocked off, and if it has a full freshwater system, the passages are completely blocked off. Again, check with your dealer.
 

yoced

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

Kwoolard - <br />Welcome back. I was hoping that you had had better luck with this..<br /><br />We had determined before that your basic set up is correct (for what it is)- please do not change that gasket.<br /><br />Last year we were left wondering if you had ever determined with certainty that your timing advance was working correctly. If your springs are bad you will be running hot.<br /><br />I also mentioned that the 3" riser is prone to clogging - especially with that stainless tube stuck in the business end of it. Did you ever pull that tube? Or replace the riser altogether?
 

Don S

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

kwoolard <br />Perhaps you could tell us what you have changed since your previous posts on this problem. Personally, I think it's time you take it to a perfessional and have them check it.....maybe not do the repairs, but at least troubleshoot the system and locate the problem. Your first post was on July 12, 2004. It's time to get it fixed before you end up killing your engine.<br /><br />The previous threads.<br /><br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=007481#000000 <br /><br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=009028#000000
 

llerrad

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

Have not seen earlier post what is the nature of your over heat problem? I have same rig. riser to waterjacket gasket has 3 openings for the water galleries around the outside, riser plate which goes under riser gasket has none but there is a small bleed hole in the plate that will match up to the end opening in the riser gasket. There is no direct water flow from the riser to the waterjacket (exhaust manifold). Water circuit confused me at first. I was also fooled by the rise in temp. at the ex. manifold during idle and cool down during cruise thought I had a blockage changed checked and clean the system components, no change in operation temp's as it is now over 20yrs old and never a problem I have left it alone, eng. temp gauge in correct range and steady I have stopped checking with the feel of my hand on the waterjackets.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

I have a 73 searay model 888, ford. I remember some of your posts from last year. I had a similar problem. I pulled my hair out checking EVERY PART of my system. I'm assuming that your system is FWC. After I checked EVERY PART of the system I was left with the heat exchanger. It looked ok, but the part you can't see is where the closed part of the system flows. Water that has alot of minerals in it will clog it, reducing its effiency enough to cause over heating. The bad part is that it's just like a car radiator and you can't see the guts. I remember that you went to hell and back last year. if you can find a used one that is known to be good to borrow from a friend to test or if you can fork up the $ for a new one try it. That was my problem. I bought my boat cheap from someone who couldn't figure it out, he had it boiled out and it didn't help . When I put a new exchanger in it ran perfect.Try it and get back to me. P.S. How many car raditors last 30 years.J
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

If its a Fwc system there should be no holes in the gasket between the manifold and elbow, and there should be a stainless steel restrictor plate as well. J
 

yoced

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

Negative on that one J.<br />Osco setup did not have the stainless plate there, just a block off gasket.
 

kwoolard

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

I apologize for reposting this topic, however, Don S has kindly posted the links so that you can read what I have done in the past to try and correct this problem. Thanks Don.<br /><br />I have a raw water cooled system, no heat exhchanger involved.<br /><br />Basically, I cleaned all manifolds and risers with muriatic acid and flushed them out with a high pressure water hose to check for flow. The flow through all risers and manifolds was great, flushed out all debri and had good clean water. I then replaced the entire thermostat housing, thermostat, and all cooling hoses from the transom all the way through to the exhaust/water exit from the risers.<br /><br />Timing checked out good for what I could make out on my balancer. I could not check the advance due to not being able to read the numbers etched in my balancer. However, running at idle and quick acceleration are great. No hesitation whatsoever.<br /><br />With all things above replaced I went out on a test run and with the thermostat in place, the temperature reaches 200 very quickly once on plane. It is fine at idle. Which led me to beleive I had a flow restriction somewhere, and sinice I had cleaned/replaced everything from the inlet side of the thermostat housing, I checked the flow from the transom hose. The water flow from that hose seems great to me. Holding the hose vertically I have about a 2 inch column of water at idle and about 3-4 inch column at 3000 rpm.<br /><br />So I committed the cardinal sin of cooling and removed my thermostat to see what affect that would have. Without the thermostat I can run at 3700 rpms at about 160-170 degree F, continuously. After a hard run I might climb up to 180 or so but cools back down if I rev the engine up in neutral. Then I changed props from a 19" to a 17" pitch. That helped me reach a higher max rpm of 3700 and the engine ran a steady 160 without the thermostat in place. I figured that without the thermostat in place it should run well below that....I figure around 100-120. I have a 15" prop on order to help me get into my WOT rpm range, so this may help with my temperature as well. Can only hope at this point.<br /><br />While running on the muffs without a thermostat the temperature doesn't get above 120 and I have flow from both idle releif ports at the transom. I just want to get this corrected so I can run the proper setup.......with a thermostat installed and a running temp of about 160-170 at WOT. <br /><br />I guess one thing I can check is to see if I have any bubbles in the flow from the thermostat housing to the exhaust manifold.<br /><br />Sorry for the long post, just wanted to get everybody up to speed.
 

Don S

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

Since it works fine at idle, it sounds like your raw water pump isn't picking up when it's "ABOVE" the water line when you are on plane. I would sure start checking there, and put the stat back in. otherwise you will have hot spots in the engine. Especially on raw water cooled engines.
 

kwoolard

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

What would cause the water pump to not pick up water when on plane?
 

Buttanic

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

I had a Mercruiser 233 I/O that started to run hot, I changes the pump impeller and it did not help. After chasing this problem for a while I changed the pump liner although the old one looked fine to me and bingo, problem solved.
 

Don S

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

Along with bad pump housings, I have found the hose that goes from the bellhousing to the transom shield kinked or the inside of the hose delaminated, shells and other junk in the plastic/metal elbow that goes through the transom shield. These would allow some flow of water which would keep it cool at idle and low speed, but not enough to keep it cool at higer rpm when under load.
 

trog100

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

the thing i find odd about this is that removing the stat dropped the temps quite a bit.. assuming a reasonable water flow thru the system this is how it should be.. cos the stat is there to keep temps up..<br /><br />but if the restriction to flow causing the overheating is elswhere removing the stat shouldnt make much of a difference to me..<br /><br />imaging the system with enough flow running at correct temps with stat in place.. remove stat the temps drop.. imagine a restrction greater than the fully open stat elswhere.. removing the stat shouldnt make any difference.. ???<br /><br />are we sure that the temperatures we are talking about are actually accurate..?? could it be as simple as the temperature gauge reading too high..???<br /><br />trog100
 

Don S

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

As he said, he is getting 180° or so when running with the stat out! 200 with, that is only 20° difference.<br />He also talked about the water flow, and it sounds low to me <br />
Holding the hose vertically I have about a 2 inch column of water at idle and about 3-4 inch column at 3000 rpm.<br />
It should put out a much larger flow than that.<br />He is also WAY over propped which doesn't help the overheat problem at WOT at all, only makes things worse.<br />Removing the thermostat from a raw water cooled engine will only make the engine run cooler close to the thermostat housing, the back cylinders will actually run hotter, but you won't be able to see that on a gauge.
 

kwoolard

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Re: Cooling Question: SOLVED!!!

Thanks Don, I will check that hose this weekend for any blockages. Just to rule out the obvious, I pulled the temp sending unit and checked the ohm reading. At 75 degree F I got a reading on the sending unit of about 920 ohms. Does this sound right? I am using a teleflex temp gauge which is new, just wanted to make absolutely sure the sending unit is correct.
 
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