Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

[CaptSully]

1988 Bayliner Capri Cuddy (1952cx) with OMC Cobra 5.0L(4v). I have the original manuals, but havent yet dove into them.

Hello all,
Just bought a boat....and now I feel like I took a shot to the belly. I brought the boat to the river and had a mechanic look it over the week I bought it (2 weeks ago). He said it had no cracks, ran like a champ, and was just 2 degrees off timing (which he adjusted). We drove it around for about an hour...and it ran great.

Now...I just took it into the shop (different mechanic) for winterization and outdrive servicing. I find out now that the block is cracked (not sure how the other guy missed it). He said there is NOT a water leak yet...and NO water in the oil yet. http://rides.webshots.com/album/561422189SJvbVJ?vhost=rides

I would be greatly indebted if you could help me out with these questions:
1. How bad is this crack? Can it be repaired? What are my options? Should I just keep driving it?
2. What is causing the greenish corrosion on the drain plug?
3. The drain plug does not appear to have been opened during the winterization. Is there another way to drain the water? Can it be drained solely by opening the opposite side?
4. The oil appeared to be very clean when I bought it...but was about 1 quart too high. Now I see oil in the bilge (probably has been there). Where can that be coming from?
5. What can I check to verify that the full winterization was done properly (per the checklist given below)?

The mechanic gave me this: "Our complete winterization chck list includes: add gas stabilizer to fuel tank, drain block and manifolds of water, fill cooling system with a system with antifreeze, change engine oil and filter,change fuel filter, run and fog engine, grease all external grease fittings, spray engine with rust inhibitor, lube shift, throttle and steering cables, check all accessible belts, hoses and bellows, drain and refill lower unit oil, remove and grease propeller shaft and bag outdrive."

Thanks all!!
Sully

 

[tommays]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

It has a LOT of cracks



Tommays

 

[akwalker]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

Kinda look more like stress cracks in the paint to me,,,,,, you sure the block is actually damaged? Maybe you want to chip the paint off around the "cracks" and see if they are actually in the metal.

 

[Dakota47]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

Its history,, look at the crack by the drain plug. plus all those others open up when hot.. you need a new short block.

 

[dmcb]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

Well I'll take a shot at the questions.

I would be greatly indebted if you could help me out with these questions:
1. How bad is this crack? Can it be repaired? What are my options? Should I just keep driving it?

If running produced no water in the oil, I would take a shot at grinding out the cracks a little and use JB Weld.
The thought is what is there to lose. If the leak/crack didn't get to the internal part of the engine JB Weld may very well fix it.
Kinda hard to believe a mechanic that looked at that engine didn't see that.

2. What is causing the greenish corrosion on the drain plug?

Corrosion.
3. The drain plug does not appear to have been opened during the winterization. Is there another way to drain the water? Can it be drained solely by opening the opposite side?

No other way and not from the opposite side.
I suspect antifreeze was used to winterize and this is often the results of someone doing just that.

4. The oil appeared to be very clean when I bought it...but was about 1 quart too high. Now I see oil in the bilge (probably has been there). Where can that be coming from?

Oil in the bilge isn't caused by a freeze crack. Likely spilled when changing.
The overfill is suspicious. It could be just that but if water is getting in, it would be overfilled. You can tell if water is in the oil. It will be milky and not clean oil.
5. What can I check to verify that the full winterization was done properly (per the checklist given below)?
Do you mean now? Open the petcock and see what comes out. Freezing is the killer.

Now again, the suggestion of fixing the obvious cracks is if you are sure after running for some hours the oil doesn't have water.

It looks like something was done to winterize because the cracks would be pushed out and wide if it was just water.
Again my guess is someone tried to use antifreeze alone to winterize. If the thermostat doesn't open you have portions of the block that doesn't get the antifreeze mixture.
Or in this case perhaps a little got through but not enough to protect.
Draining, if done, is enough to protect your engine from freezing.
The antifreeze is for corrosion protection.
If the block doesn't drain, pouring antifreeze on top of the water won't protect. You have to mix it to protect.
There will be a lot of posts like this in the spring. There always is.
Doug

 

[wire2]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

Suck some fluid from the dipstick tube, if there's water in the oil, it will come out first. If the engine hasn't been running lately, the oil on the dipstick will appear clear, as oil will rise above the water.

 

[Dakota47]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

After closer inspection it looks to be cosmetic. you might have got lucky ..

 

[CaptSully]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

Thanks everyone!!! I posted more pics: http://rides.webshots.com/album/561422189SJvbVJ?vhost=rides

Dakota47 and akwalker, thanks for your close inspection. I hope you are correct....I will be finding out shortly (most likely this weekend) with my dremel tool.

dmcb,
Thanks so much for the thorough review and answers to my questions!

My plan for tomorrow night (if I get home in time) is to open up the petcock on both sides and drain some into a white bowl. If it is just water...or very watery antifreeze, then I will be pissed. They clearly stated they would DRAIN the block and manifold.

Additionally...I checked the oil dipstick tonight and it is bit high and is very dark. I'm now wondering if they changed the oil. It looks like the filter has been changed this year (based on the date on the filter), but I'm not sure when? And even if it was, does not guarantee that the oil was changed (see more pictures uploaded today).

After I check for water in the block, I plan to drain some oil from the drain tube and see how clean/dirty it is (and for water). I dont expect to see any milky oil though.

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

if there's no water in the oil, you could JB weld it. Dark oil is good in this case- water makes it white. sounds like you got lucky.

Is it a 5.0 Ford? or a 5.0 Chevy?

either are so readily available it makes it sort of silly to take a chance, and an upgrade to a 5.7 if it's a Chevy is always cool for another 30HP....but JB has worked wonders for me on external cracks.

 

[Don S]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

Just having water in the oil will not make it milky. You must run the engine for a while so the oil pump can mix them together under pressure to cause it to be milky.
With that many external cracks, you may very well a couple internal ones. It will all show up for sure when you run the engine.
It was not taken care of, and is now in need of an engine, manifolds and risers, or very good luck.

kjd, it's a Chevy. You can tell by the starter.

 

[oops!]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

yup shes cracked.

i jb welded my 4 cyl. it held.
(external cracks only)

but don s is right.
im suprised it can run, cause the manifolds usually go first!

if it is only external, jb might keep the water from the bilge and you can run it indefinatly,
but a craked block is a craked block.$$$$$

good luck

oops

 

[a70eliminator]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

Sully, if it will make you feel any more confident here's a picture of a crack in my manifold which has never leaked--knock knock, it was like this when I bought the boat and I didn't see it until I got it home.

 

[CaptSully]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

1. I ran the boat for about 2 hours last week (with muffs, on the dock in the river, and up/down the river). That should have sufficiently milkified (its a word) the oil...if there was water in the oil. But...it still looks good (dirty, but good)...and the mechanic said the oil looks good (no water). I am pretty sure that the cracks are not (yet) internal.

2. What I'm trying to figure out now is...did the mechanic do what I paid them to do? If not, I need to reverse the charge on my CC right away. Looks like dirty oil for being 1 day old and only run for a few minutes. And the petcock does not look like it was touched to drain the block. Who knows what else they didnt do?!?!

3. I will grind away at the cracks a little bit on Friday (when I'm off). I'll let you know what I see and take more pictures.

4. BTW...my engine alignment was WAY OFF also (per the mechanic). He said it was SUPER hard to get the outdrive off....and was probably never serviced. I was worried about engine mounts and rotten stringers...but he came back and said that it adjusted up just fine. No problems.

5. Because the outdrive appeared to not have been serviced in a long time (or ever), I asked him to replace the bellows. However, he did not. He said, "I looked at them and they looked good."

Here's my thought...I was supposed to get my boat back on Thursday, but it wasnt done (they had removed the outdrive and lubed it up though). I went there on Friday, still not done. I went there on Saturday, still not done. I went there on Monday...and it hadnt moved yet. But come Monday night, it was done. I am thinking they possibly changed the oil filter, pumped some antifreeze through the system, and sprayed some oil on the engine......just to get it out the door. Who knows if the engine alignment is still WAY OFF?? Just my feeling....

Sully

 

[tommays]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

What do you feel he did wrong ONE oil change is NOT going to undue a liftime of NO matiance

If he water tested it with you and the block was cracked internal it would have shown up in a BIG way during the test

I think your mad at the seller and yourself and trying to take it out on him


Tommays

 

[CaptSully]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

Sometimes folks just read the last post...and jump to conclusions. So....before I also jump to conclusions, I will ask that you read the entire post...if you so feel inclined to do so.

I appreciate any and all responses. I really cant tell you how much I appreciate your responses and advice!

Now to address the last comment from tommy. No...you are wrong. As my subject says, I am trying to ONE: Find out solutions/advice on the cracks. And TWO: Determine whether or not MY mechanic did what I paid him to do (just yesterday). BTW...I'm not exactly sure what a "water test" is...but if you are referring to the OTHER mechanic taking it for a ride with me in the river, that was done. The mechanic I paid to do a FULL winterization and outdrive service charge me $491.00. He did not do a "water test" as far as I know. He just said that there wasnt any water in the oil.

Sully

 

[dmcb]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

Running it that long should have warmed up the block and opened up any cracks if they were there.
You really have nothing to lose by attempting a repair.
Actually no water is coming out so it may just be a feel good repair anyway.
You don't have confidence in your mechanic and I would change to another.
If you told him to change the bellows, I think he should have unless he knows the age.
Adjusting the engine may make it correct as far as alignment but did he check the stringers for rot?
Oil changes for example are easy for a diyser.
Winterizing also if you get a manual and follow it exactly.
You not only save some money, you know it was done.
I suspect he did the winterizing properly. He would have liability if he didn't.
It what was done previously is your problem now.
I still can't see how someone who looked at that engine missed the cracks.
The best thing I think is to run the heck out of it and see what happens.
Close to shore.
Good luck.
Doug

 

[njlarry]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

Sully, Sorry you're having such problems with your new boat. I think your cracked engine problems are due to the drain plugs never being used because the former owner tried to winetize with a flush kit instead of draining. If he didn't drain and didn't add AF at all I think you'd have a lot more damage. Hopefully JB weld will fix it. You might want to pressure test the cooling system. I'd call the first mechanic and ask how he could have missed it and I think you deserve a refund and the mechanic should count himself lucky you don't hold him liable assuming he gave you the ok before the purchase.
Once you get it fixed you can look forward to some great times on the water.

 

[tommays]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

There is really no way to tell what he did other than checking if he put anti-freeze in the block


1. OIL If it was really dirty before the change it will not look like new with one change

2. Drive alignment If it was way off generaly there is a probem with a part of the boat being worn OUT


3. Cracks If there NOT leaking i would NOT do more than a surface cleaning any grinding into them could make it worse


Tommays

 

[Bry21317]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

To me that oil looks quite dirty, but that could also show due to the prior owner and how the inside of that engine really is.

I would use it and see what happens. It is quite easy to do that stuff yourself, minus the Drive alignment.

I don't like to take stuff anywhere, as I know it was done and I very picky. If I mess up, then I know I did not do something right, but if I take it somewhere and they mess up , then I am going to be really mad that I paid someone to mess up my block.

Bryan

 

[BRG25]

Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

I don't understand why people come on here and speculate?

Call the first mechanic and ask him why he missed the cracks...they certainly aren't new.

Call the second mechanic and ask him if he changed the motor oil if you're that unsure. Most marine mechanics know how to winterize, otherwise they wouldn't be in business very long. Why do you automatically feel that you're getting screwed?

How about speaking to the previous owner of the boat?

I too bought my first boat with an external crack in the block that someone had JB Welded. I bought the boat from a dealer but I didn't find the problem until a couple years later and by then it was too late. Oh well, buyer beware. When I sold the boat I disclosed the information to the new owner, took a hit on the price and moved on to my next boat. To my knowledge they are still running that engine.

You have an old boat with an OMC drive...not the best choice for your first boat. Guess what? If it was poorly maintained...you're either going to be spending a ton of money paying someone to fix it...or you're going to be investing in some tools. Facts of life...good luck.