Cylinders full of oil

[catalyst-519]

Rebuilding my first motor. 1964 Evinrude Fisherman 5.5hp Model 5402.

Upon opening the case I noticed a ton of oil in the motor case that had pooled around the base of the powerhead. Brown like car oil.

Tested compression. . . garbage. Removed the cylinder head and the cylinders and plugs are also coated in thick brown oil. Piston heads are also caked with the stuff. It's greasy, not carbon.

Head gasket was cracked btw the two cyls and was bubbled around the cylinder impressions.

Any ideas about what may have happened to this motor before I got my hands on it? Is it even worth fixing or will it likely need boreing?

In addition, how much play is acceptable between the piston and cylinder. There is a tiny wiggle but not massive. Would this indicate a ring job or a complete bore.

Any help would be awesome before I sink any bucks into a lemon.

Cheers---Adam

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

sounds like a hacked winterizing job, is my guess.

 

[F_R]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

Do a little bit more inspecting and evaluation before freaking out and considering rebore or whatever. That oil didn't just grow in there, or if it did you can run OPEC out of business. Somebody dumped it in there. I suggest you remove the exhaust cover plate from the side of the powerhead and take a looksee. You can see the rings and sides of the pistons through the exhaust ports. If the pistons aren't scored they probably are OK. Poke at the rings to see if they are free in the grooves. If all this checks out, wash it all down with some mineral spirits and put it back together with NEW gaskets and see how it goes.

BTW, piston clearance is measured at the skirt. The head end is looser and some slop there is normal. Of course you can't measure the skirt clearance without tearing it clear down.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

get it cleaned out, and do a compression check. then go from there.

 

[rndn]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

Only one thing to add to the above posts. Welcome to the iboats forum!

 

[catalyst-519]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

Thanks for taking the time guys.

This is all helpful information and I'll post back after I take a look behind that exhaust cover plate.

Thanks again and I think it's great that a forum like this exists with folks dedicated to lending some advice and help to those in need.

Cheeers---Adam

 

[catalyst-519]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

Ok guys:

Pulled the exhaust cover. Gasket was awful to get off. I'd imagine it was the original. Take a look at these pics and here's what I'm contending with. The pistons don't look scored but the heads are caked and the exhaust manifold was caked full of carbon and sticky oil.

What do you think happened here?

What can I do to safely clean this oil residue and carbon from the heads and exhaust manifold without tearing the whole powerhead apart?

Cheers--519

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

Simple... it was never de-carboned. Older motor ran with more oil than newer ones and some people ran extra oil.

Whe you look at the rings are they free or gunked up too? You can take a few routes to clean it. Any real good penetrating oil (sea foam) will soak the carbon and loosen it.... scrape it and vacuum it out. be careful only to attack the carbon and do not remove any metal.

You can actually bring a piston up above the ports and put a few ounces of sea foam in there and let it soak 24 hours or so and then do the other piston the same way.

That carbon is common on a smaller motor that has not been de-carbed and not run at WOT all the time.

Sea foam, compressed air, vacuum, spray air in a can are all your friends!

 

[catalyst-519]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

The rings look good. The piston sleeves and cylinder walls are clean. . . .surgical steel clean. But the rest ...heads and exhaust mani are caked. Thanks for the advice. I'll try this sea foam stuff. What about a pressurized solvent like a carb cleaner?

Cheers--519

 

[catalyst-519]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

One more thing.

What about all that excess oil. It's thick and brown like car oil. When I bought this motor it was all pooled in the base of powerhead and around the main seal. Any ideas?

--519

 

[G DANE]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

I'd say all the spilled oil is from an overkill wintherizing attemp. Hasnt hurt anything. Someone poured oil in the sparkplug holes, after having too much Scotch. Wont hurt anything. A few runs those with regular motor oil instead of twostroke, and ads a little extra to be safe. Carbons everything up. Clean it out as good as you can, replace headgasket, tighten head, decarb. I think you are good to go, then.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

C-519, I rebuilt '61 5.5hp and it was close to that, not as bad though. I would still do the minimum and still check the compression when you can though. My 5.5 had 0 compression when I started and in the 90's when I finished. I honed the cylinders and used the same rings (they were in good shape) and all went well.

BTW, where in Ontario are you?

 

[wbeaton]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

Looks like a nice little motor you've got, Cat. Follow the advice above and put it back together with new gaskets. You can get Sea Foam at NAPA. Its the only place I've seen it. Don't even bother looking for it at Canadian Tire. You can use carb cleaner too. Really anything that will break down the carbon is fine.

You say your compression numbers were garbage. What were they? That motor will run fine with compression down to 60 psi. Where the results even for both cylinders?

 

[catalyst-519]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

Compression sat at 50 psi on both but the head gasket was also cracked between the cylinders (original w/o stainless rings) so I'm assuming that this accounts for the low value. In addition it's a high psi gauge reading up to 400psi and 50psi is the min value. I'll be picking up a more sensitive gauge this weekend. I'm doing a carb job on it to so I'm hoping once I get it cleaned up and replace all the gaskets it'll purr on the water. Just hoping that once I get the flywheel off the condensers still look good (doubt it though). Has good spark so I'll keep fingers crossed. I'll post a pic once I have it finished in the next few weeks or so. Ice is still on here so I have some time yet.

Cheers----519

Btw Samo I'm in Stirling, about 3hrs from Ottawa.

 

[wbeaton]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

Nice town, Stirling. I grew up 45 minutes east of you.

A better gauge is definately in order. I expect it will be fine once you clean it up and finish the tune-up. I have a 1962 Fisherman that is super quiet and runs beautifully. Such nice motors.

When you change the impeller also change the cork gasket and o-ring that sits on top of the driveshaft. That is part of your lower crankcase seal.

 

[Evinrude Boater]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

Btw Samo I'm in Stirling, about 3hrs from Ottawa.

Say Hello to Tom Gunsinger for me, if you know him.
Tim
p.s. I'm hoping to fire up my 1965 5hp Johnnie this weekend. Spring is just about here!!!

 

[Lakester]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

But the rest ...heads and exhaust mani are caked. Cheers--519

hello,

if it was my project... i would carefully scrape all crud i could get access to... WITH a vacuum running right next to my scraping too. this directs the crud away from the engine's internal areas. and i would take my time. i have spent nearly a day on a water jacket plate and head surface just to get all the passage ways and mating surfaces "gasket ready". i would make my effort a maximum effort and not just a good enuff to get it running. ie, chase all head bolt threads etc., for example. i also use Qtips and laquer thinner as i see fit.


one thing is for sure, u cant get it too clean.

regards
lakester

 

[Lakester]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

In addition, how much play is acceptable between the piston and cylinder. There is a tiny wiggle but not massive. Would this indicate a ring job or a complete bore.

Any help would be awesome before I sink any bucks into a lemon.

Cheers---Adam

hello,

sounds like the bore to piston clearance is good. the piston will rock over from bore side to bore side as it slides on the ring and its lands if you push it. my good running '71 evinrude has a lot more piston in the bore slide, wall to wall... than... " a tiny wiggle ". and i have 110 and 115 ish CR on head gaskets i know were not in the best sealing condition... so i expect higher once i get my new head gaskets in and the camp load on them back into an ideal spec.

regards
lakester

 

[F_R]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

Don't be worrying about the carbon in the exhaust area. Knock the big chunks out and put it back together. That is an exhaust area and carbon in there is absolutely normal. You can get it squeeky clean today and by mid summer it will be nasty again. There are better things to worry about.

However, carbon in the head and piston tops will flake off and foul spark plugs. You don't need any fancy chemicals to clean the piston tops and head, but go ahead and spend your money if you want to. Just scrape the crud out and rinse it out with some mineral spirits or whatever. Have the pistons at the top of the stroke when cleaning so crud doesn't get down into the intake ports. They don't have to be squeeky clean either, but do get the excess and loose crud out.

As everybody has said, somebody dumped that oil in there. Wash it out and feel better.

 

[Harker]

Re: Cylinders full of oil

I think I'd soak that head overnight in carb cleaner then scrub it with a parts brush. I'd scrape as much of the big chunks as I could with a plastic putty knife. When you get her back together do a few "de-carbs" with seafoam and it will be clean as a whistle inside. Good luck and please post back with results after you get it running.