Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

[NHStriper]

Bought a new used boat (1999 Sportcraft 231WA) a couple months ago with a 1999 Johnson 200hp OceanPro J200PXEEN in a private sale and started having trouble with the keeping reverse fully engaged. It goes into reverse smooth but while in reverse it will start knocking like it was coming in and out of gear momentarily. Doesn't have the problem when engaging forward gear.

Read through a bunch on posts in this forum and here's what I did to troubleshoot.

1. Removed shift cable and readjusted trunion nut. In order for the cable to reach the neutral position I had to max out the adjustment of the nut. This seemed to eliminate the problem but it was only temporary. Issue came back the next time I used the boat.

2. More closely inspected shift cable and found that while in neutral, at the motor end connection and still connected, I tested if there way any play in the cable. I did this by pushing and pulling on the end of the cable and was able to move it in and out about 2 inches while the controls stayed in neutral. This lead me to believe I needed to replace the cables.

3. Removed shift cable from motor. With the motor running I manually shifted the motor into reverse. Knocking still happened. This lead me to believe its in my lower unit now.... possibly worn clutch dog.

4. When I replaced lower unit fluid, found metal shavings on magnetic ends of plugs. Fluid was almost black, so I filled with new fluid, ran motor, drained and refilled to flush out old fluid.

5. I did not drop the lower unit and check the shift rod height. Do I even need to at this point?

Does this mean I need to either rebuild the lower unit (local shop ballpark estimate of $1000min) or buy an new aftermarket lower unit ($1000 SEI)?? Any other recommendations or tests?? Thanks for any help.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

Bought a new used boat (1999 Sportcraft 231WA) a couple months ago with a 1999 Johnson 200hp OceanPro J200PXEEN in a private sale and started having trouble with the keeping reverse fully engaged.

5. I did not drop the lower unit and check the shift rod height. Do I even need to at this point?

Your number five (5) question jumps out at me. I strongly suspect that either the previous owner or yourself has installed a new water pump and turned the shift rod out of adjustment. The measurement in neutral from the top surface of the lower unit to the center of the shift rod hole is critical. Someone else will need to advise you as to what that measurement is.

 

[NHStriper]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

Thank you for the reply Joe. I'll pull the boat out of the water and check the measurement. I remember it being specified in my repair manual. It sure would be great to come away from this with just having to adjust the shift rod versus dropping a grand after just buying the boat!

I will report back after measuring. What about the color of the fluid and the metal shavings?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

Much of the gearcase lube was a pure black color which had to do with an additive derived from whale sperm oil. This is okay and you probably noticed that it stunk pretty bad (usually does). How OMC ever got that whale to masturbate has always puzzled me.

The magnetic tip of the drain plug is usually coated with micro fine particles of metal.... so fine that you can rub it between your finger tips without ant discomfort, this scenario you can ignore. However, if those particles resemble splinters or chips... rather large particles, then I would be somewhat concerned.

 

[NHStriper]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

Ha! It all makes sense now... and I thought they it was always sperm whale oil, not whale sperm oil.

Dropped the lower unit and measured the shift rod at exactly 26" (as installed) from the eye to the top surface of the shift cover that is bolted on top of the lower unit. My manual calls for 26 1/4" plus or minus 1/32. HOWEVER Everything I find says to measure from the top surface of the lower unit. To me this means the top surface of the lower unit joint that meets up with the midsection. No where have I found to measure from the top of the shift cover. I tried to adjust the shift rod to 26.25" from the top of the lower unit but the shift rod bottomed out and could not get that far into the lower unit so I assume it must be from the top of the shift cover... the only other surface that made sense.

After adjusting to 26.25" and reinstalling, the shift cable nut now needed to be adjusted to the opposite end and just about maxed out. Started the motor and now reverse worked fine but forward would half engage and grind alot. Putting two and two together I now understand how adjusting the shift rod height changes the swing extents of the shift lever. It was obvious that in the first scenario, reverse was too far back for the shift cable to reach hence the reverse grinding and in the second scenario, forward was too close to the front of the motor and would hit another component of the motor, preventing it from being pulled into the forward gear position. So I dropped the lower unit again, split the difference in the shift rod height and set it to 26 1/8", and reinstalled. This time the trunnion nut was not maxed out and the motor appears to shift fine with no grinding.

Is this ok? Am I measuring from the wrong surface? Is it critical to have the shift rod height exactly as manufacturer's spec or it is ok to use common sense to adjust it to work? Can someone confirm that 26 1/4" is the correct spec for a J200PXEEN?

Also, checked the lower unit oil and found it to be a lime green color versus the dark blue/green put in previously.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

I said nothing about the shift rod cover. To copy/paste what I said = "The measurement in neutral from the top surface of the lower unit to the center of the shift rod hole is critical." This means that the measurement must be taken from the top mating surface of the lower unit.... the portion that you would apply some kind of sealer on if you were going to apply sealer, the portion that the main retaining bolts go thru.

And the lower unit MUST BE in neutral. Was the unit in neutral? I can think of no reason for the rod to bottom out UNLESS the shift rod was in the down position.

Hopefully someone will jump in here with the proper measurement just in case you might have, however unlikely, a improper printing of it.

 

[NHStriper]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

I agree that you said the top of the surface of the lower unit, that is why I am confused because the proper measurement was not even close when measured from that, but appeared correct when measuring from the shift rod cover. I am the only one who assumed to measure from the shift rod cover. I am pretty sure I was in neutral when adjusting the rod height and it definately was in neutral when I was taking the measurements. I will try again though to be sure. Another thing that is confusing me is that if I was able to adjust to 261/4" from the lower unit rim, the top of the rod would end up being almost an inch lower so that when the lower unit is put back on the motor, the top of the shift rod would not even be exposed through the top of the midsection and I would not be able to bolt it to the clip/lever...

The lower unit is off right now and in my garage. I will try again. Thank you for your help Joe, I have a feeling this is the problem. I will let you know how it goes.

Can anyone confirm the measurement of 26 1/4" for a J200PXEEN?

 

[monnewbie3]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

I also had the exact same grinding and bucking you describe, my problem was a minor shift rod height adjustment, and the pivoting "knuckle" that connected the top of the shift rod to the controls had a crack along the back side (didn't pivot correctly).

Hope you figure it all out.

Cheers

 

[NHStriper]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

Thanks. I plan to readjust and try again tonight after work.

 

[NHStriper]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

Just got off the phone with Johnson... Shift height should be 26 15/16" NOT 26 1/4". Will try again tonight. This makes much more sense.

 

[DC20]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

Thanks. I plan to readjust and try again tonight after work.

If you search youtube for johnson evinrude shift height you will find a homemade measuring tool that works well and shows how to measure.

 

[NHStriper]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

Thanks DC20. I saw the video your referring to yesterday, very helpful... just wish I was using the right height from the start...

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

I had doubts about your measurement quote from the start but wasn't about to question your manual.

Normally the fraction measurement is sort of weird such as 13/16", 9/32", etc.... so your quote of 1/4" came across as a very odd measurement.

Are you sure that's what your manual states? And if so, what manual is it?

 

[NHStriper]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

Turns out my manual states the measurement correctly. What messed me up was my assumption it was a 60 degree because the chart in my Seloc manual had my model #PX within that chart. Under the 90 degree is states the right height.

I adjusted the height tonight and it worked since my shift cable adjuster was not maxed out this time. Ran on the muffs and engaged both forward and neutral with no problems. I plan to seatrial tomorrow after work as the final test. Still concerned I'm getting water in the lower unit since the gear oil was a lime green color.

As for adjusting the shift cable properly, my Seloc manual states to put remote in WOT position and then adjust cable, making sure to pull all backlash out of the sleeve. I've read other posts that tell you to adjust while in neutral and find the midpoint in the play on the lever and the midpoint of the play in the shift cable's sleeve. Which is the correct way? Also, is a half inch of play in the sleeve on the shift cable normal?... meaning I can pull out and push in the sleeve on the shift cables shaft and move it about a half inch while remaining in neautral position on the remote.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

(Centering Shift Cable)
(J. Reeves)

When all is as it should be, the proper method to adjust the shift cable is to disconnect the cable from the engine. Move the shift linkage on the engine to find the center of the play in neutral, and when found, leave it centered.

Now, grab the end of the shift cable sleeve, push and pull it to find the center of the play there, and center that play.

Adjust the trunion on the threaded portion of the shift cable so that the centered play of the cable lines up with the centered play of the engine's shift linkage. Install and lock the shift cable with the retaining clamp in that position. That's it.

 

[NHStriper]

Re: Diagnosis...Replace/rebuild lower unit? Recently bought boat.

Got it. Thank Joe for all your help. I really appreciate it and will let you know how the seatrial goes.