Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

[sasto]

I was thinking (not always a good thing) about modern auto's and charcoal canisters. Could this be an ideal way of venting a boat fuel tank, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

Those systems are a bit complex to design. I would recommend you wait for the OEMs to have it mandated by the feds.

 

[04fxdwgi]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

I would leave it alone.. Too many considerations there and I wouldn't want to be venting in the bilge area / engine when engine is not running and not sucking the fumes away (maybe a boom on start). Even with the canister systems, the fuel fill cap still vents on pressure / vacuum, but to the outside.

If it was safe, I'm sure EPA would have mandated it by now.

 

[sasto]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

Thanks guys.......that's what I get for thinking!

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

shame on you........ lol.... never hurts to ask.... even with a canister you still need a vent.... the canister goes inline between the tank and the vent... You just don't see the vent in an automobile.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

The technology is available. http://www.perkofuelsystems.com/

Coming soon to a boat near you

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title40/40cfr1060_main_02.tpl

 

[sasto]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

HMMMMM....My thinking was that the canister would not allow for condensation in the tank. Is this possible? (if there is such a thing as condensation)

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

My understanding is that cars do have a pressure valve built into the fuel system, problem is that cars do not normally create the kind of fuel pressure that boats and off road vehicles do due to the constant bouncing around of the fuel cell/tank in boats and off road vehicles. Even in traffic accidents the fuel systems in cars and trucks are built to deal with fuel pressures created in the accident but in a final fail safe there is a way for the fuel system to relieve pressure as safely as possible before it explodes, this is usually the fuel filler cap, it is pressure tested, and regularly fails in modern vehicles which the computer senses and throws a code.

I like you sasto, I wouldn't do it!!

 

[sasto]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

I like you sasto, I wouldn't do it!!

I like you too, Lipp. You are one of my favorite charactors around here. I won't.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

HMMMMM....My thinking was that the canister would not allow for condensation in the tank. Is this possible? (if there is such a thing as condensation)

The fuel systems is vented "out" thru the motor via the EGR valve. The system is vented "in", only when the motor is running so there is no free exchange of air in the system which should reduce the condensation problem to about nil.

My understanding is that cars do have a pressure valve built into the fuel system, problem is that cars do not normally create the kind of fuel pressure that boats and off road vehicles do due to the constant bouncing around of the fuel cell/tank in boats and off road vehicles. Even in traffic accidents the fuel systems in cars and trucks are built to deal with fuel pressures created in the accident but in a final fail safe there is a way for the fuel system to relieve pressure as safely as possible before it explodes, this is usually the fuel filler cap, it is pressure tested, and regularly fails in modern vehicles which the computer senses and throws a code.

Systems has been developed and approved for marine use. Implementation begins in CA next year

Working together, the NMMA and the ABYC have proposed an industry specification for installing carbon canisters and pressure relief systems, which the EPA and CARB have accepted. The actual, detailed specification is in development. Builders will be asked to demonstrate that their products are built in accordance with these specifications in order to obtain NMMA certification. This will demonstrate to the EPA & CARB that a boat is in compliance. Representatives from boat & engine builders, tank, fill, valve and canister manufacturers, test labs and the U.S. Coast Guard are among the authors of the new specifications.

 

[04fxdwgi]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

The technology is available. http://www.perkofuelsystems.com/

Coming soon to a boat near you

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title40/40cfr1060_main_02.tpl

Thanx for the links......OK..... Here we go.....
Next, we'll need to retrofit older boats to comply with rules similar to new ones. Just wait.

 

[Stachi]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

Thanx for the links......OK..... Here we go.....
Next, we'll need to retrofit older boats to comply with rules similar to new ones. Just wait.

I doubt the retrofit......we didn't have to do them on cars built before emissions regulations were implemented.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

cars can still get condensation in the tank Air is allowed in through the fuel cap but out only through the canister (up to a certain pressure as mentioned above)

Also keep in mind that car fuel tanks are designed to hold MUCH more pressure than our big square boat tanks..... 5 psi will puff em up like a balloon

 

[seabob4]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

Sasto,
Leave well enough alone...

 

[zagger]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

LoL, pick on another tree ;o) What was said about pressure is very true. The canister will not prevent condensation, it's main function is to reclaim vapors and burn them through the engine so as not to release them into atmosphere. Aside of clean air there is no other benefit.

 

[sasto]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

Sasto,
Leave well enough alone...

LoL, pick on another tree ;o) What was said about pressure is very true. The canister will not prevent condensation, it's main function is to reclaim vapors and burn them through the engine so as not to release them into atmosphere. Aside of clean air there is no other benefit.

OK, I was thinking about adding a fuel cell to our 1974........nevermind!

 

[Outsider]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

The fuel systems is vented "out" thru the motor via the EGR valve.

Uhhh, I believe EGR stands for exhaust gas recirculation and likely has nothing to do with fuel system venting or vapor recovery systems ... :facepalm:

 

[zagger]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

Charcoal canisters and EGR are totaly differant systems and do differant things. I belive OP aked about canister. EGR is considered a `metered intake leak' and was developed to reduce the combustion temperatures to below 2,500 degrees, the threshold where NOx is created. Not unlike putting a brick in your lavatory to lower the volume of water used, the EGR valve meters a readily available inert gas (actually exhaust gas which contains a lot of very inert Carbon Dioxide) into the combustion chamber to effectively reduce the volume. Smaller effective displacement means less fire, and less heat and thus lower temperatures, thereby controlling NOx emissions.

OK, I was thinking about adding a fuel cell to our 1974........nevermind!

I was thinking about Flox Capacitor but then I remembered the rule about bringing bananas on board

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Do Away With Fuel Tank Vent

I was thinking about Flox Capacitor but then I remembered the rule about bringing bananas on board

Dang misinformation..... It was Mr Fusion that used bananas... lol The Flux capacitor could be powered by a good lightening stri.......... oh crap..... the banana law prohibits lightening on a boat too doesn't it?