Doel-fins

Dead Eye

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
259
I just bought Doel-fins for my 1988 150 blk max. I was looking to get up on plane faster. Also i am looking to stay on plane at reduced speeds. Any comments on Doel-fins? I did not buy the other ones at the store, not just the prices were higher, they looked too large.<br /> Thanks, Dead Eye
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: Doel-fins

More than likely, you will see a better hole shot and get on plane quicker. You will also stay on plane at a lower speed. Top speed may suffer a bit, but then again it may not. They do a pretty good job on most boats... Doel fins are fine. Use larger washers on the bottom to prevent breaking the cavitation plate.
 

MajBach

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
564
Re: Doel-fins

Use larger washers on the bottom to prevent breaking the cavitation plate
You just made me paranoid! Can you elaborate on that? The washers go into a recess so how can you put a bigger washer on?
 

MajBach

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
564
Re: Doel-fins

No, they are on both sides. He said use 'larger', implying that there were washers already there. There is no other place to put larger washers on the bottom except for between the fin and plate itself - which makes no sense to me.<br />Why don't you let him answer.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
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Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Doel-fins

Obviously the extra washers, installed on the top or bottom, are suggested because of the added stress to the cavitation plate (anti- ventilation). The stresses build as the boat increases in speed, and in turns. <br /><br />Any additional planning surface added to the boat will give assitance in planning and maintaining plane at slower speeds. However, adding additional planning surfaces to the center of the boat can be tricky. For example the characteristics of the hydrofoil will be different if it runs above or below water level.<br /><br />The boat should be lifted by the hull not the motor, and that is the purpose and advantage of Trim Tabs. <br /><br />Search Trim Tabs and Smart Tabs for more information.
 

MajBach

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
564
Re: Doel-fins

John: Hmmm. Not so obvious me thinks. I have washers both above and below the cavitation plate; they are about a dime in diameter. They fit into a recess on the outside of the fin, i.e. do not contact the cavitation plate. Therefore, I cannot add bigger washers in this spot and adding extra ones would do NOTHING. The Doel-fin has a smooth flat surface that runs almost its entire length and this surface butts to the c-plate. Adding a washer between this surface (it's the only surface left) thereby creating a space betwen the plate and fin would increase stress both on the plate and on the fin.<br /><br />On the topic of lifting the boat with the motor instead of hull, I would suggest that some would argue this point with you, including me. Since the fin is supposed to run out of the water while on a plane (allowing you to increase the X-dimension), the hull is doing all the lifting and your point is moot. <br />During hole shot and below planing speeds, I would argue that the boat is not 'resting' on the fin instead of the hull but rather it allows the outboard to run in a more vertical attitude since the increased surface area of the fin cathes more water and applies more counteractive force. In other words, an outboard tries to runs vertically though water(which is most efficient since all thrust will be on the horizontal), but forces acting on the hull -whether it be gravity or water - push or pull the boat up or down and counteract this. An equilibrium is eventually achieved whereby the motor inevitabley is pointing in the non-vertical, i.e. pointing upwards during holeshot and downwards while on the plane. Increased surface area on the outboard catches more water, creates more of a counteracting force and thereby gives the driver more countrol over the attitude of the boat. <br />Paricularly during hole-shot with the motor trimmed in, I fail to see how smart tabs are advantageous.<br /><br />Once again, I restate my satisfaction with this type of device, as do dozens if not hundreds of others on this site. I get substantially improved hole shot, slower planing speeds and even slightly higher top end. All for less than $30. This is enough to offset the risk of spending signifcantly more $$$ for trim tabs for perhaps marginal improvement - or not. If you want to install a pair of tabs on my boat to prove to me how much better they are than a fin, we can make arrangements. If they show a marked improvement over my current set-up, I'll buy 'em. If not, you fill in and repaint the holes you drilled.<br /><br />This is starting to sound a little like the Amsoil posts.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Doel-fins

MajBach,<br /><br />I'll bite.<br /><br />I have used many cavitation plate fins with mixed results. Some very good, some very bad.<br /><br />Trim tabs also allow side to side load balance, no fin can offer that.<br /><br />Trim tabs will also allow fore an aft load balance, no fin can do that either.<br /><br />Nothing against the fins, however they are not the be all and ultimate answer. They cannot compete with trim tabs for boat control.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Doel-fins

Majbach;<br /><br />Call me!<br /><br />We have a money back performance guarantee, and a program for dealers who install them. I understand what you are saying, however you may be surprised at how much lift the hydrofoils create at cruising speeds and above, even when they seem to be out of the water. There is no comparison between the Smart Tabs and a hydrofoil.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Doel-fins

I'll second nautijohns recommendation. <br /><br />The product he mentions do everything tabs do without the fiddling. Can you say-AUTOMATIC!
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Doel-fins

Majbach;<br /><br />I was not attempting to tell anyone that they should install to Doel fin with any additional, or suplimental hardware. I was only trying to point out that the washers desipate the load over a wider surface area. Larger or additonal washers should not be necessary.
 

BillP

Captain
Joined
Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: Doel-fins

I've run a Doelfin on a 17' Cobia with a 70 Johnson approx 20 yrs. The boat is a semi-vee and pretty flat aft. The boat doesn't show much on hole shots with the Doelfin (it pops on a plane without the Doelfin) but does show a dramatic top end performance increase. I can trim the motor higher without cavitation (ventillation for the politically motivated authorities)and increase speed while pulling the throttle back. My motor is mounted with the cavitation plates 1/2" above the boat bottom. The only downside is I figure this could be a setup for lean runs.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
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Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Doel-fins

BillP;<br /><br />You have obviously set your boat up (motor height etc.) correctly. Boats with I/O's don't have that luxury, and if the Hydrofoil is too low they are stuck. Your "nearly flat" hull in the back provides better planing capability than does a deep V hull. It also provides better port to starboard stability. It's down side over a Deep V hull is tracking in turns and slower top end (which is a non issue sine boats spend very little time at WOT), and a little more harsh ride in the waves. There is no perfect Hull design unless the boat is used for the same purpose under the same conditions all of the time.<br /><br />What the Smart Tabs will do is provide an active (automatic), and independent, and adjustable control. <br /><br />The best product is the one that serves you to your satisfaction, and if you are satisfied that is all anyone can ask for. Enjoy your boat as often as possible, life is too short.
 

MajBach

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
564
Re: Doel-fins

OK John, you're on. I was actually considering this all winter anyway - for curiousity's sake if nothing else. I can see how these fin's do not offer as much performance increase on stern drives (or heavier boats I would suspect), for the reason you pointed out. And I can also vouch for trim tabs as I had them on an old Sundancer and, as already mentioned, the fore and aft balance and espescially the side-to side stabilty made trim tabs almost mandatory.<br />However, I was unaware of the concept of the 'x-dimension' until reading posts here during the off season. Since my plate runs under water while planing, I am anxious to see if there is a difference after lifting the motor up a notch.<br />Because my boat is short and wide and is stern heavy, it bounces quite easily in even light chop. You stated the tabs could help to prevent this (in a previous thread)and I will accept that no fin can. So if nothing else....<br /><br />BTW, all this is dependant on the contingency that my recently ex-wife and her blood-sucking lawyer don't force me to sell my last proud possession.
 

MajBach

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
564
Re: Doel-fins

Like your original post, this one too needs to be read more than once before it even begins to make sense.
 

bubbakat

Captain
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
3,110
Re: Doel-fins

Deadeye you have my apology for these remarks that I posted on your post.
 

Dead Eye

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
259
Re: Doel-fins

I am reading the difference between hydrofoils and trim tabs, My questoin is is larger better? Doel-fins are the smallest an the shelf. I just want to get on plane faster and stay on plane at slower speeds.<br /> Thanks, Dead Eye
 

Hooty

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
4,496
Re: Doel-fins

I'd think that with a 150hp you'd go with the larger fin.<br /><br />c/6<br />Hooty
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Doel-fins

Dead Eye;<br /><br />The more additonal surface you add to the stern the easier it will be to plane and stay on plane at slower speeds. No Majic!<br /><br />When adding this surface to the motor (ie:hydrofoil)you will increase the stern lift and reduce the minimum plane speed to some degree. However, you will also be consentrating this additional lift in the center of the boat, which can cause a teeter totter effect on a V bottom boat. The results? Bow steering especialy in turns and tracking problems. Additionally depending on the height of the motor the foil can cause excessive lift at cruising speeds and make the boat run nose heavy ( slowing the boat top speed). <br /><br />Trim tabs for your boat will add 216 square inches of additional planing surface, which makes them about 2 times more effective than even the larger Hysdrofoils. Secondly they attack the water at an angle (at low speeds)which increases the initial lift. Most important is that they (Samrt Tabs) retract (self adjust) to a horizontal position and are adjustable to your boat upon or after installation. Like fine tuning a suspension sytem.
 
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