Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

[phatslim]

A boat we're in the process of purchasing ('93 Thompson Calae 2000) has a small soft spot (less than a square foot) underneath one of the rear seats. Beyond that, the floor is solid.

Based on the posts I've read, it's like the boat has been sentenced to death. Is something that small always indicative of a trashed boat? Are there any stories that aren't doomsday where it turned out that the stringers and transom were fine?

We are going to have it looked at further but I'm just wondering. Is there EVER a rainbow at the end of the story or is it a 100% failure rate if even the smallest soft spot is found?

EDIT: We paid to have it inspected by a pro and he found a similar soft spot under the other jump seat. Same place, same size. Updated below...

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

no it's not 100%


more like 98%...... just skip it and move on to a different boat

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

In a pre-purchase situation it is something to avoid, because the odds are against you.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

A 20 yr. old boat with a soft spot in the deck won't have a happy ending.

Boats rot from the inside out and the bottom up, so by the time the deck shows signs of rot (even just a little) there is much more below deck.

Any boat with a soft spot on the deck should be considered a project boat and will take considerable time and money in addition to the purchase price before it can be considered seaworthy.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

not if you already own it, but too risky to buy it

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

At times you are lucky... usually not. Maybe the stringers are ok. Maybe the transom is OK. If rot is found in either of those places it generally means $2500 - $4000 to repair (do both) or have a lot of time,,, a LOT OF TIME, some wood working tools and skills, and a ton of work.

 

[geneseo1911]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

Short Answer: Yes

Long Answer: The top of the floor has access to air, so it can almost always dry out. Wood has to be damp for a long time to rot to the extent that it becomes soft. This pretty much has to occur from the bottom up, and because water flows downhill, something has to be holding it up against the deck, either foam or stringers. Chances are by the time those parts can hold water up against a deck, they are already waterlogged.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

A boat we're in the process of purchasing ('93 Thompson Calae 2000) has a small soft spot (less than a square foot) underneath one of the rear seats. Beyond that, the floor is solid.

Based on the posts I've read, it's like the boat has been sentenced to death. Is something that small always indicative of a trashed boat? Are there any stories that aren't doomsday where it turned out that the stringers and transom were fine?

We are going to have it looked at further but I'm just wondering. Is there EVER a rainbow at the end of the story or is it a 100% failure rate if even the smallest soft spot is found?

I used to doubt that. But now that I have seen it and helped removed a few decks I am a believer. Below that deck lies the majority of the rot. And hundreds of pounds of water soaked floatation.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

you really have to understand how boats were built back in the time period. No one who built boats back then really built a boat that would last 20 years in the worst conditions. bayliner was cookie cutting hulls and selling a lot of boat for a cheap price so if you wanted to be competitive you had to make a good boat as cheap as possible. Cars were the same way during the 80-late 90's.
The people who are giving you advice are the people who have torn old boats down to the hull and they have seen the short cuts taken during construction to increase speed and reduce costs.
Stringers were not encapsulated in fiberglass they were layed in the hull then fiberglass was draped over them and joined to the hull which left voids that water could get into. the deck was then layed over the stringers and more fiberglass was draped over the top to seal the deck. when water got under the deck it started to rot the deck from the bottom up but it also soaked down the side of the foam and started soaking into the stringers. To make matters worse some stringers have no fiberglass between the stringers and the transom so once water found its way in it just moved around under the fiberglass soaking all the wood. It has taken years for enough water and air to get to the areas for the rot to get a good hold so by the time you see a soft spot it means its been slowly rotting under the deck for many years. There are boats that the stringers and transom have remained water tight but they are the oddity. There are also boats that where the stringers and transom are damp in spots but are still solid and they will last another 5 years. Not many people really want to put a lot of work into replacing a deck and then having to come back in 5 years to cut out all the work they put into the deck so they can tear out the stingers and start again. Being on the cheaper end of the used market is a hard place to navigate as theres lots of boats that are cheap but the risk of finding a bad one is high so you will either have to wait until you find a good boat cheap or a bad boat real cheap then invest in rebuilding it.

p.s boats around the year 2001 started to change to non-wood construction it takes a lot of research to work out when each boat made the change but it may be worth looking more in that time frame.

 

[25thmustang]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

Depends on the boat style, size etc... But it's usually a fair sign there are underlying issues.

 

[Daniel1947]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

I don't have any information to add, but I am in a similar situation. I purchased my 89 Astro a couple years ago, my first boat and it was a real good price so I have no complaints especially since I have seen the prices on new boats. The 150HP BlackMax has been completely rebuilt and is very healthy. After some minor repairs, adjustments, etc., everything on the boat works. I have discovered the deck is shot as are the stringers. I am not a novice when it comes to physical labor; I have some limited experience working with fiberglass, and I can do the wood work, I have the actual tools. I am retired, so I have the time this fall/winter and a place to do the work. I have seen many, many videos of replacing/repairing the deck etc., and am an avid reader of Iboats Forum (which is probably the best boating forum out there.) I no there are alot of comments about not putting out the money, but at the same time I feel if I spend $2500 to $3000 for materials/supplies, I will still come out ahead and have a boat that should last many, many years. Any comments would be appreciated. THANKS TO ALL.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

A boat we're in the process of purchasing ('93 Thompson Calae 2000) has a small soft spot (less than a square foot) underneath one of the rear seats. Beyond that, the floor is solid.

I'd be willing to make a substantial bet with you that the rest of the deck is NOT solid, it's just not quite as bad as the area that's rotted through (yet).

I'm into my 3rd boat rebuild and the comments about boat construction and cutting corners is right on the mark. I'll just about guarantee that the underside of the deck wasn't glassed, or even coated with resin. It's only a matter of time before more and more of the deck rots to the point that it feels soft.

If you're in love with the boat and are looking for a project it sounds like you've found one (IF the price is right). If you expect to purchase a boat to use immediately and to last for a good number of years then move on, there are plenty of other boats out there. Optimists are horrible at purchasing used boats, you need to approach the process with a healthy dose of skepticism.

 

[Watermann]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

Depending on your area you live, I imagine the guy is wanting 5 to 6 K for that boat. Most of the late 80's early 90's boats being sold is the owner dumping his known troubles on someone else.

If you buy an obviously rotten boat, do so knowingly and pay accordingly. You can buy the style and type of boat you want on the cheap and then fix her up 100% sound for a fraction of the price of a new boat. Otherwise save your money for a newer boat that has been taken care of.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

you really have to understand how boats were built back in the time period. No one who built boats back then really built a boat that would last 20 years in the worst conditions. bayliner was cookie cutting hulls and selling a lot of boat for a cheap price so if you wanted to be competitive you had to make a good boat as cheap as possible. Cars were the same way during the 80-late 90's.
The people who are giving you advice are the people who have torn old boats down to the hull and they have seen the short cuts taken during construction to increase speed and reduce costs.
Stringers were not encapsulated in fiberglass they were layed in the hull then fiberglass was draped over them and joined to the hull which left voids that water could get into. the deck was then layed over the stringers and more fiberglass was draped over the top to seal the deck. when water got under the deck it started to rot the deck from the bottom up but it also soaked down the side of the foam and started soaking into the stringers. To make matters worse some stringers have no fiberglass between the stringers and the transom so once water found its way in it just moved around under the fiberglass soaking all the wood. It has taken years for enough water and air to get to the areas for the rot to get a good hold so by the time you see a soft spot it means its been slowly rotting under the deck for many years. There are boats that the stringers and transom have remained water tight but they are the oddity. There are also boats that where the stringers and transom are damp in spots but are still solid and they will last another 5 years. Not many people really want to put a lot of work into replacing a deck and then having to come back in 5 years to cut out all the work they put into the deck so they can tear out the stingers and start again. Being on the cheaper end of the used market is a hard place to navigate as theres lots of boats that are cheap but the risk of finding a bad one is high so you will either have to wait until you find a good boat cheap or a bad boat real cheap then invest in rebuilding it.

p.s boats around the year 2001 started to change to non-wood construction it takes a lot of research to work out when each boat made the change but it may be worth looking more in that time frame.

Right on Bro! Right answer. :joyous:

 

[phatslim]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

Well, we must be in that 2% that gets super lucky. Seems to be extremely rare after reading all of the horror stories on here!

We paid $250 to have the boat looked at by a pro tech and had the floor cut out where the repairs are to be made.

I'll spare all the irrelevant details but the transom is solid and we're told the stringers are dry and in fine condition. The engine needs a tune-up (new plugs, wires) but he said the MerCruiser 5.7L V8 runs well and has good compression.

We know the boat wasn't sitting abandoned somewhere because it had been in a hoist and fully covered when not in use. It was also stored indoors off-season at the same marina we bought it from. We know the brother-in-law of the guy who traded it in towards a new boat, and they were the original owners.

Someone above mentioned we probably paid $5-6k in our area but we paid way less than that as the marina sold it to us for a bit over trade-in with the agreement that we'd store it there over winter and rent a slip in 2014 (which we planned on doing anyhow). It had only been traded in a few days prior so they also said we'd have to pay for the tune-up, which is something they typically do before advertising a boat for resale. Not a big deal and they had already gone over the boat otherwise.

Quite obviously, the tech couldn't check the entire interior structure with only two 2' cuts but he felt confident considering how good everything looked at the stern.

The soft spots were under each jump seat and he thinks the wood rotted there specifically because A) that's where people would re-enter the boat or sit after swimming or tubing; and B) because the soft spots were right around the screws from where the seats were affixed to the decking.

The screws were rusted and he doesn't think sealant was used, or if it was, it just wore. He also said that the soft spots were in the exact same place on each side...same spot under each seat and progressively worse when you fanned out from the screw locations. Beyond that, he reported that rest of the floor was solid. No flexing, arcing, or soft spots, even around the ski locker.

Since we're looking at this as a 3-5 season boat, he recommended not tearing up the entire deck and said it should be fixable with marine-grade plywood at a cost of $300-$400 depending on who does the repair.

I'm not discounting all of the great advice given above, I'm just stating the condition of this particular boat. Had we not known a bit of the boat's history or gotten it at such a good price, the soft spot would have scared us off. But we felt it was worth a $250 gamble to have it looked at. Worst case, we'd be out $250, but we'd have saved ourselves a massive headache.

To others with a soft spot or two, it's not always doom and gloom. I'm sure it's probable, but it's not always the case. In our situation, I know we got lucky, and I'm so glad we made the initial investment for an inspection.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

That's right man. Not all doom and gloom. Each story has an ending, some happy, some not.

Wish you the best. The $250 you spent for an inspection was some of the best money you probably ever spent.

Mark

 

[phatslim]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

Totally agree. My first instinct was to not spend $250 on something I might not buy, but then, the only reason I wouldn't buy it is if it would cost me thousands. The peace of mind alone was worth every penny.

I'd recommend the expense to anyone as unfamiliar with this territory as I am.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

well done getting the inspection and im glad you got the boat before the damp could spread. The boat being dry stored probably saved what in 2 years would have been a total mess if it had been left outside uncovered. I would be less concerned by a soft spot in the floor if I could find the point of entry and the chair screws seems like they caused the problem. Most of us are not as lucky and we find the soft spot In the middle of the deck where there's less support by the stringers and no hardware to blame for a localized leak.
I have to ask......did the seller let you have a hole cut in the deck by the inspector or did you have to take a gamble and buy the boat before the hole was cut?

 

[phatslim]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

Hi Glenn (love the username, lol)...

The marina was going to do the repair anyhow so they had no problem with that being done prior to finalizing the deal. They weren't concerned about there being rot on the transom and stringers so they allowed it without any hesitation. Turned out they were right. We're having them do the repair and they said they'd do both sides for $250 if I allowed them to do it over the winter when they have downtime in the shop. No brainer!

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Does a soft spot ALWAYS mean you're totally screwed?

Hi Glenn (love the username, lol)...

The marina was going to do the repair anyhow so they had no problem with that being done prior to finalizing the deal. They weren't concerned about there being rot on the transom and stringers so they allowed it without any hesitation. Turned out they were right. We're having them do the repair and they said they'd do both sides for $250 if I allowed them to do it over the winter when they have downtime in the shop. No brainer!

sounds like a real good place to do business.