drive shaft oil seal groove

[ziggy]

evening peoples, i was thinking about putting my lower and my upper back together tonight. got it all greased up. anyways, got me a new concern. my drive shaft has a groove in it.....

i assume caused by this lower seal in the upper.....

question is, should i do something about it. i did hold 15psi prior to disassembly. 5'' of vacume, maybe 4, did rotoate while testing.
i guess my feeling is the drive shaft don't look good. i ain't got to much bread left after doing other stuff to the drive. think i should speedy sleeve it? put me a seal in the upper? the seal best i can tell, (feeling it) seems smooth enough, not tore, somewhat plieable???? looks like it wore a groove in my drive shaft to me though. any opinions one way or the other? other than R&R the drive shaft + replace the seal..... am i dreamin that i can get away with it as is since it passed a pressure, vac test?

 

[starsnstripers]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

I'm not sure whats on the market for marine but we use to use some stuff for hyd. rams to fix scored chrome. Maybe Don might know of some kind of epoxy or compound. I would think that if that seal did that then there has to be some wear on the seal. Eventhough it tested ok I'd atleast replace the seal, It's a small seal can't cost to much.

 

[ziggy]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

It's a small seal can't cost to much.

nope, not to expensive. last time my mercruiser dealer even had one in stock. that i like. how bouts this idea. i don't have the proper seal driver anyways. but i've R&Red this lower seal in the upper (different drive) before useing a socket. if i could drop the seal off in a different posistion, deeper or shallower. i'd have new, none scored drive shaft to be sealing to. can i adj. the depth of that seal? is there room (depth wise) one way or the other if i wasn't usein the oem seal driver?

 

[starsnstripers]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

I though of that too but i dont know how much surface there is where the seal sits. the seal probably bottoms out. If so than the only option would be to leave it rased a bit. I might find a shim or two that fit good and posibly use a sealer/adheasive or a light locktight on the "new"seal so it would stay in place if it raised from the original position. I'd try it but thats me. Good luck!

 

[achris]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

A few things here...

1. The seal is dirt cheap. I would expect most dealers would have then in stock. I used to replace them on every service I did. For a shop it's cheap insurance against a customer returning with a 'you didn't do the service right' complaint.

2. Removing the old seal is just a matter of flicking it out with a long screwdriver. I drove the new one in with a piece of flat steel and a long drift. Once you have it there, you can drive it a little further with the right size socket and it'll sit on an unused section of the driveshaft.

3. Most important. Loose the 'O' ring in the the groove at the top of the driveshaft. Merc did away with them in about 1985. The new driveshafts don't even have the groove anymore. All they manage to achieve is for part of it to slip out of the groove as you put the 2 boxes together and hold the seal open (the one installed in para 1) and let heaps of water into the very area you are trying to keep it out of, the splines in the bottom of the upper driveshaft! I believe there was even a service bulletin to this effect. (Don to the rescue?)

Cheers,

Chris.............

 

[ziggy]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

3. Most important. Loose the 'O' ring in the the groove at the top of the driveshaft. Merc did away with them in about 1985. The new driveshafts don't even have the groove anymore. All they manage to achieve is for part of it to slip out of the groove as you put the 2 boxes together and hold the seal open (the one installed in para 1) and let heaps of water into the very area you are trying to keep it out of, the splines in the bottom of the upper driveshaft! I believe there was even a service bulletin to this effect. (Don to the rescue?)

well, i certainly have had my share of grief with puting that oring in place. the two halfs never seem to go back together right the 1st time. so i end up taking it apart and the seal removes the oring for me.... i understand that that oring groove isn't there anymore on the newer versions of the 1 drive. i sure would be interested in seeing that service bullitin. does anyone know what that oring was supposed to do? best i can see, when the two halfs are together that oring must be at about the bottom of the driven gear splines. so it sealed the splines?

glad i didn't put the drive back together last night. think i'll have me a new seal come monday and try to install it in a different location. the one there now is a little below flush with the boss. maybe i can get away with leaveing it flush and have it ride on a new driveshaft....

 

[starsnstripers]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

Sounds like a plan to me. I would like to know what the pupose of that o-ring is too? I'm going to be taking my type one prealpha apart to service it soon so If i have that o-ring i should leave it out also. Good luck there Ziggy.

 

[starsnstripers]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

Looks like exhaust carbon in that cavity? Maybe that o-ring was to protect the seal from exhast carbon, dirt/dust or foriegn crap?

 

[ziggy]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

sns, achris had talked to me about this perhaps 3 years ago. at that point i was conviced it was the thing to do. leave the oring off. i did leave it off on my last 1 drive. but the whole boat only lasted another 10 hours before disintigrating in front of my eyes. i never took the halfs apart after that to see any ramifications. that oring is past the seal. on the other side of it, the oring passes thru the seal into the hole. my best guess is it must resides at the bottom of the driven gear in the upper......my only guess as to it's purpous would be to keep the lub ya put on the splines in place... i don't know...

 

[starsnstripers]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

OH! Thanks for clearing that for me Bondo. I misunderstood that little point. Yeah that would be my guess too. To keep the greese down in the spline. But I think what chris said is more important if you service your outdrive rerularly and regrease the spline would be better than the o-ring lodging in the seal to let water in huh?

 

[erikgreen]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

Am I going insane here, or is a post from Bond-o missing or something?

Erik

 

[achris]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

Bond-o??? I don't see a Bond-o in this thread....

If you're concerned about grease being wiped off by the seal as the driveshaft passes through it, then take a finger full of grease and stick it in the bottom of the upper driveshaft before you put the boxes back together. That will solve that problem for you.

The original purpose of the 'O' ring was to seal inside the bottom of the upper driveshaft, making it a second line of defense against water intrusion. But over the years Merc found that on too many occasions as the 'O' ring was passing through the seal it would catch and the seal would hold part of the 'O' ring outside the seal, thus rendering both the seal and the 'O' ring useless. As I said, the later shafts did away with the groove altogether. Another problem caused by the groove was that it created a weak point on the shaft. So much as touch something and the shaft would shear right across the groove, just like it had been milled. I've seen lots of sheared shafts. Most with just the lightest damage on the prop.

Cheers,

Chris..........

 

[ziggy]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

The original purpose of the 'O' ring was to seal inside the bottom of the upper driveshaft, making it a second line of defense against water intrusion.

i don't know which way it is, but. just talked with my merc dealer marine tech. his notion was that the oring was there as a vibration dampner....? his notion was that since it's there, the oring groove, might as well use it. he said if he were doing it he would....guess i have a decission to make..... havn't decided which way to go yet...... i do undestand the resoning to not use it though...... to bad there ain't a way to know that that oring made it to it's proper location once installed.....

Another problem caused by the groove was that it created a weak point on the shaft.

that i believe for sure... when my dad was alive and owned a 1 drive. he hit some stuff, sure enough, just like ya said achris, sheared off right at the oring groove..... i can't make the groove go away. best i can do is use an aluminum prop, which is what i use....

got me a new seal and hope to drop it off in a slightly different location to pick up unused driveshaft...... thanks for the help folks....

 

[achris]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

i don't know which way it is, but. just talked with my merc dealer marine tech. his notion was that the oring was there as a vibration dampner....? his notion was that since it's there, the oring groove, might as well use it. ....

If it was so useful, why did Merc stop making a groove for it?

 

[erikgreen]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

Bond-o??? I don't see a Bond-o in this thread...

Cheers,

Chris..........

OH! Thanks for clearing that for me Bondo. I misunderstood that little point. Yeah that would be my guess too. To keep the greese down in the spline. But I think what chris said is more important if you service your outdrive rerularly and regrease the spline would be better than the o-ring lodging in the seal to let water in huh?

I guess maybe he was just mistaken on names..?

Or I'm just confused.

 

[starsnstripers]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

Hey, weather or not you decide to use the o-ring, If it's not to late I found a place where you can get a double sided seal with two lips instead of one and the stainless steel spring inside each lip. I think that would solve the groove in the shaft thing. Let me know if your interested.

 

[ziggy]

Re: drive shaft oil seal groove

thanks sns..... to late though. the upper and lower are now back together, just finished....... pressure tested at 15psi for a half hour.....rotated drive a couple times while i was waiting.....