E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

[Philster]

So, guess E-10 isn't exactly helping!

The High Ethanol Fuel Endurance study tested the effects of E15 and E0 on four-stroke and two-stroke Mercury outboard engines that included the 9.9HP four-stroke, the Verado 300HP Supercharged four-stroke and the 200 EFI two-stroke.

In addition to increase fuel consumption in two of the engines, the study showed that E15 caused damage to two out of three outboards and complete failure in the Verado 300HP engine, as well as ?degraded emissions performance outside of engine certification limits,? according to the release.

And this is from a government agency that is biased towards showing ethanol fuels are ok!

http://www.boatingindustry.com/news...y-e15-causes-severe-damage-to-marine-engines/

 

[Sabbath]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

I wouldnt be putting an Ethanol fuel in my outboard. 2-Stroke or otherwise unless it was designed from factory to take Ethanol.

 

[zagger]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

Problem is that in a lot of areas you can not purchase non ethanol fuel anymore.

 

[Philster]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

The next step is to go from E-10 to E15. That's what's coming; that's what this is all about. I can find some ethanol-free fuels at some marinas, but it's not a guarantee; it's definitely hard to find. Some folks flat out can't buy anything but E-10.

 

[SDSeville]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

How is that stuff on car based I/O engines?

 

[Philster]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

Popular Mechanics says, 'Automakers have filed a lawsuit against the EPA's decision to make E15 (gasoline with 15 percent alcohol) legal for all cars after 2007. They argue that, among other problems, the blend could damage the engine. Wait, moonshiners used to run their cars on 190-proof hooch. Can ethanol really do damage to an engine? Yes. Here's how.



http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/biofuels/e15-gasoline-damage-engine

 

[royal0014]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

Ya'll are late to the game. This topic was started two days ago.....

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=521416&p=3524635#post3524635


<<)))(((>>

 

[Philster]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

This affects more than outboards, so they have to move their misplaced thread from that 'other' forum. Tough noogies.

 

[Outsider]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

unless it was designed from factory to take Ethanol.

I'm pretty sure all engines have been certified for E-10 since about 1985 ...

 

[oldjeep]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

So these guys stuck E15 in a carburated engine without increasing the mixture and they were suprised that it causes damage associated with a lean condition?

 

[Sabbath]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

unless it was designed from factory to take Ethanol.

I'm pretty sure all engines have been certified for E-10 since about 1985 ...

And that helps all the people using a 1970's era motor and thinking "hey, E10 is cheap"

But it's not just the motor, it's the rubber components in the fuel system that can suffer from it, and a hotter burn (cant think of a better word atm) so when it's making the cylinder slightly hotter, so do you over compensate with your oiling mixture in a 2-stroke?



Im not flat out canning Ethanol in any way. We have cars that are now being built on an E85 compatability in a 6L V8. But, these cars have the bend factor put into the software for the Ethanols properties to get a better, more efficient burn and have completely different fuel systems to cars that were not designed to run Ethanol in large percentages, because of what it does to components overtime.

I believe (hope?) that people realise that Electro powered vehicles are not the way to go, and the focus is made on Alcohol for a fuel source. Would be great being able to fill my V8 (308, cammed, stalled, 750DP Holley) up with Alcohol from the servo...would have some nice performance pickup aswell.

 

[mommicked]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

I think "certified" does not mean it cannot be damaged by this crap that is evedently being pushed despite it's many drawbacks. If you let E10 sit in any motor to long, like a boat not run everyday like an auto, bad things happen. E15 can only amplify this problem. I believe some realize this, but there's too much invested now to stop it. Maybe when we can't afford to EAT corn anymore things will change. I've also heard that the ethenol is mixed in the tanker truck and depending on whats inside already the ratio of delivered fuel can vary widely, like E10 actually being 15 or more! I'm really upset though, that I have purchased it unknowingly from pumps that have absolutly no labels or signs to tell me thats what I'm buying Most people I ask, when the pumps aren't labeled, have no idea if they're selling it or not you must speak to the manager and they're not there.

 

[dingbat]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

Surprise, Surpirse, Surprise. Never hurts to read the fine print.

This report was prepared as an account of work sponsored by an agency of the United States government. Neither the United States government nor any agency thereof, nor any of their employees, makes any warranty, express or implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or process disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe privately owned rights. Reference herein to any specific commercial product, process, or service by trade name, trademark, manufacturer, or otherwise does not necessarily constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States government or any agency thereof. The views and opinions of authors expressed herein do not necessarily state or reflect those of the United States government or any agency thereof.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

I believe there's a site/app which lists stations known to be "ethanol free".

I'm lucky enough to not only have one close by...but they are also CHEAPER per gallon than their corny competitors. They're always busy, and besides that...most stations don't make much profit from the actual fuel sales, but from selling you the soda, chips, coffee etc...so even though they may only break even on gas...more people=more potential profit.

I've run the numbers...and in all four of my autos(SUV/van/P/U/Subaru) I notice an increase of around 1-1.5 MPG using straight dino fuel. Doesn't sound like much...but every little bit counts.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

But it's not just the motor, it's the rubber components in the fuel system that can suffer from it, and a hotter burn (cant think of a better word atm) so when it's making the cylinder slightly hotter, so do you over compensate with your oiling mixture in a 2-stroke?

Would be great being able to fill my V8 (308, cammed, stalled, 750DP Holley) up with Alcohol from the servo...would have some nice performance pickup aswell.

I run up to around e40-e50 currently in my turbocharged car. I'm always playing with the tuning, but at least as of the last dyno session, e40 gives an extra 30 horse and 45 ft/lb of torque. I can run about 4 more PSI of boost (16 vs 20), as well as more timing across the board. Mileage is nearly identical.

Alcohol burns cooler, substantially cooler... Heat of combustion of ethanol is 12,800 btu, gasoline is 20,000 btu. In my experience my exhaust gas temp hits a max of 1650f at the exhaust valves with 91 octane gasoline, with ethanol I hit around around 1500-1500 max.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

Would be great being able to fill my V8 (308, cammed, stalled, 750DP Holley) up with Alcohol from the servo...would have some nice performance pickup aswell.

My buddies 502 powered drag car runs E85, you just need to make sure you can supply the volume of fuel you need running that much alcohol.

 

[Sabbath]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

Where i live (Australia) there has only just started to be a push towards Ethanol blended fuel in the past 5 years or so. You can still buy 91 octane, 95, 98 all unblended, and then E10. But now, just in the past year i've noticed E85 pumps springing up, and as i mentioned, the latest cars i work on are flex fuel, E85 compatible.

Carter Black, 100gph @ 14-16psi. Only running on 7 at the moment. Room for future expansion

 

[pmillar]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

Problem is that in a lot of areas you can not purchase non ethanol fuel anymore.

I sure couldn't find any straight gas around Ann Arbor this summer. Up in Minnesota a few weeks ago (on business) I noticed pumps in lake areas with 100 gasoline.

 

[mommicked]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

What are we the people supposed to gain from any report or finding that is followed by Dingbats posted disclosure? I miss common sense, when it comes to the morons who I cannot mention. I'm sure this endevor did'nt cost much either.

 

[jacoboregon]

Re: E-15 fuel = severe damage to marine engines per the Department of Energy

unless it was designed from factory to take Ethanol.

I'm pretty sure all engines have been certified for E-10 since about 1985 ...

I'm not sure that is true for outboards and other 2-cycle motors. One big problem is that the ethanol attracts moisture from the air and it "condenses" into your fuel, not to mention the bad things it does to seals and such.
I too, am fortunate to have a couple of local options for non-ethanol, but it is only sold in premium, and is more expensive, but I will not run ethanol in my outboard.