E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

[Ancloter]

I took my 2006 e-Tec 200 (2.6l) out yesterday and received the low oil at startup. I checked the external oil tank and it was full but the cap was off somehow (?). I ran out 2 miles at 3000 RPM and the engine died with the Low Oil light still on. :facepalm:

I pulled the external oil tank for inspection. To my horror 2/3 of the tank had water and the rest was oil. I used several buckets to separate the oil and put it back in the oil tank. I used the oil prime bulb to push out contaminate as best as possible. I put about 8-10 bulbs into the line, figuring that was enough to flush out the water and bring the oil in.

I tried to re-start the engine. It would turn, fire briefly then quit. This went on for about 100 attempts then it started. I did three hours at 1000 - 1500 RPM and 20 mins at 3000 RPM. I could smell the oil burning. There were periods when the engine would get a bit louder or chatty and I'd drop the RPMs and idle til it disappered.

I realize the e-Tecs have a No Oil Limphome mode and high-temperature alloys but am wondering what is the likelyhood of permanent engine damage and more importantly what is the repair process at this point?

My tentative plan at this point is to:

1) Dump out remaining oil and refill external tank with fresh oil (XD-100).
2) Attempt to disconnect the oil line at the engine and purge out the oil in the line.

Will this suffice?

I am interested in a knowledgible cost-benefit recommendation. It is not worth $9000+ to "do the right thing and put in a new head, oil injectors and oil system". I'm not a millionaire and have been boating for 25+ years. I know when to replace an engine. I'm just hoping I don't have to here. The engine only has 83 hours. With the e-Tec's high temp piston alloy and smart engine protect sensors I'm hoping it intervened to save the engine.

Thank you.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

Unfortunately you are in a good position to determine if the e-TEC advertising is real or exaggerated. I saw the infomercial where they cut the oil line and limp home for hours. I had a hard time believing it. For your sake I hope it is true.....

Sorry, I cannot help any...

 

[Ancloter]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

I've done some reading and apparenlty there is a small, backup oil tank under the cowling used for the Limp Home mode. This is initiated by the onboard computer and limits the RPM. My RPMs were not limited however.

My only hope is that the low oil alarm tripped due to sensing the water in the external oil tank and that it switched over to the backup tank. In that case purging the external oil line and refilling the remote oil tank with fresh oil may work. I am also hoping the periodic 'chatting' of the engine was due to dirty fuel injector(s) which I've encountered a few times on previous trips. A new fuel filter is on order for that.

Thank you.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

Given the way this all happened, I'd suggest getting it to a qualified service centre ASAP.
Setting off with a low oil warning was a major error in judgment. Reusing oil that was contaminated with a substantial amount of water was a second( Cross your fingers that the water was fresh water and not salt water. ).
Running the motor for 3+ hours with oil that you knew to be contaminated was a third.

Not trying to be a smart-a**, or critical, but "boating for 25+ years" does not really say anything about what your knowledge base might be. One of the biggest costs incurred by the DIY community is not recognising their own limits or an escalating problem and getting from the shallows into really deep water....quickly

The fact that the contaminated oil is apparently still in the motor clearly suggests that you are way over your head here....you need to get a professional on this ~ if it is not already too late.

Good luck, I hope things go well.

 

[Ancloter]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

"One of the biggest costs incurred by the DIY community is not recognising their own limits or an escalating problem and getting from the shallows into really deep water....quickly

The fact that the contaminated oil is apparently still in the motor clearly suggests that you are way over your head here....you need to get a professional on this..."

My preference is to address this on DIY engine boards referencing posters' knowledge of the e-TEC oil injection system. I don't appreciate the comment on my experience. I've re-built marine engines, salvaged, and serviced them and was a marine mechanic some years ago (I have a corporate job now, thank you). The reason I am asking on the e-TEC is because I do not know of its capabilities and limitations with respect to its computer sensors, controls, engine alloys and oil injection system. The fuel for this boat has top end lubricants added and a low E rating.

As for 'get it to a professional' H#LL NO!! I've lost more engines to "professionals" stealing my property under false pretense for unauthorized, unrequested and improper work than I have gone through on my own (2 v 1). I have one good mechanic I use. He's an hour away but does not know the e-TECs. I have absolutely no intention of using a 14K dollar engine as the material collateral for locating a competent e-TEC mechanic.

Thank you for your concern.

 

[AlTn]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

maybe etecownersgroup.com would have more suggestionsor recommendations

 

[ONERCBOATER]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

I hope the damage is minimal....."I don't appreciate the comment on my experience. I've re-built marine engines, salvaged, and serviced them and was a marine mechanic some years ago (I have a corporate job now, thank you)." explains alot in it's self. I can't think of any responsible boater that would knowingly leave shore with engine warning lights or buzzers going off. Much less to intentionally run 3hrs+ with contaminated oil... and now your worried about IF you have any engine damage? As to your being a marine mech... people wonder why i work on my own equipment, and now corporate...hmmmm
the etecownersgroup.com may be able to help you out they focus only on etecs... perhaps a call to the manufacturer, they know the capabilities of their engine the best..... they may even want to use the story for advertizing (or a tech bulletin).

Sean

 

[wilde1j]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

The user E-Tec knowledge on the internet one could put in a thimble. I have two 175's and have solely relied on my local BRP tech, who is very experienced and knowldgeable about E-tecs. I bought my motors through him and he's never given me bad advice. Good luck with the cheap DIY route. BTW, I've rebuilt many powerheads and gearcases, but the current motors aren't very friendly to the ignorant.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

"One of the biggest costs incurred by the DIY community is not recognising their own limits or an escalating problem and getting from the shallows into really deep water....quickly

The fact that the contaminated oil is apparently still in the motor clearly suggests that you are way over your head here....you need to get a professional on this..."

My preference is to address this on DIY engine boards referencing posters' knowledge of the e-TEC oil injection system. I don't appreciate the comment on my experience. I've re-built marine engines, salvaged, and serviced them and was a marine mechanic some years ago (I have a corporate job now, thank you). The reason I am asking on the e-TEC is because I do not know of its capabilities and limitations with respect to its computer sensors, controls, engine alloys and oil injection system. The fuel for this boat has top end lubricants added and a low E rating.

As for 'get it to a professional' H#LL NO!! I've lost more engines to "professionals" stealing my property under false pretense for unauthorized, unrequested and improper work than I have gone through on my own (2 v 1). I have one good mechanic I use. He's an hour away but does not know the e-TECs. I have absolutely no intention of using a 14K dollar engine as the material collateral for locating a competent e-TEC mechanic.

Thank you for your concern.

Wow.
Sorry if you were offended, that was not the intent.

My comment was

but "boating for 25+ years" does not really say anything about what your knowledge base might be.

and meant just that. I have no way to judge what your abilities might be except from your description of how you got into this predicament. You might be a brilliant helmsman and navigator but not know the difference between a wrench and a winch ~ tough to tell in an internet forum ; I was surprised at the "100 attempts" to restart the engine.

You followed-up with a fairly detailed outline of your skills and abilities.
The mystery then becomes why you would drive through all those stop signs which you described.

Running a 14K engine with an unresolved oil warning (which turned out to be for real), then recycling contaminated oil, then running the engine with the crap oil, then leaving it all to sit, at least overnight, didn't seem like the most informed choices....especially for a 25+ year seasoned salt. I didn't want to embarrass you by asking what you could have been thinking.

That's why I suggested you take it to a pro. Whatever you do, the most important thing is to do it ~ yesterday....the clock is ticking.

If that was salt water that your lubrication system was pumping into the bearings....

If you are intent on dealing with this on your own, you could try Evinrude's tech Help line, explain the situation, and see what they advise.

If you have a concern with your engine that your dealer is unable to resolve, please have your engine model number and serial number available, and contact us at:

Johnson-Evinrude Dealer and Consumer Support Services

250 Seahorse Drive
Waukegan, IL 60085
Telephone: (847) 689-7090
Available Hours: 8 am to 4:30 pm CST


So, you have my sympathy, my advice, and an explanation and apology related to my first post.
Again, good luck.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

I've done some reading and apparenlty there is a small, backup oil tank under the cowling used for the Limp Home mode. This is initiated by the onboard computer and limits the RPM. My RPMs were not limited however.

Hate to say it but that is not the case. There is no backup tank under the cowling and the water being a liquid will be pumped through the motor and will pressurize the system just like oil will. The E-TEC will run longer without any oil than it will with water.

From your descriptions, there is probably water inside the motor at the bearings especially. Do both a compression test and a leakdown test to check the piston and cylinder condition and check the oil lines for any signs of water.

You should be ordering the factory manual right away and protecting the crank, rods, and the ball and roller bearings to avoid super expensive repairs - assuming that the engine is not damaged already.

Good luck to you.

 

[ziemann]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

If it was mine, I would take seahorse's advice. Do whatever you can to remove the remnants of the water and then I would try to get oil down to the bearing and crank to protect it. The best idea that I can think of would be to run it repeatedly through the automatic winterization cycle to get as much oil pumped in to it as possible to displace the water.

 

[boobie]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

My question would be, why was the oil cap off, pilot error or just plain stupidity ??

 

[Ancloter]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

Thank you to all for your concern.

Yes, how did the cap get off the external tank? I also had a spare gallon of XD100 next to the tank which was missing and the compass globe was also damaged, neither of which were noticed until after launch. The boat is stored in my side yard and the family often takes road trips on the weekends. There has been other damage to the boat in the past (fittings broken or removed, equipment taken) but all less expensive than a single month in a storage facility -which is also susceptible to vandalism and does not allow maintenance work or have fresh water and electrical available.

My corrective action in this regard has been to creat a pre-launch checklist and to store the spare gal. of XD100 in the (locked) cuddy cab.

My purpose for this thread and task is to bring the engine online using the least potential for current or future damage. Finger pointing, 20-20 hindsighting and 'shouldas' are of no value at this point. The moment the engine died I realized that if this was an 90s or earlier engine it would have been toast (scored). I was not familiar with e-TEC computer monitoring and sensor capabilities which I need to understand to determine engine damage and repair options.

Here's where I'm at:

I inspected the system yesterday to determine a course of repair. There is no internal oil tank in the engine. The oil lines in the engine had clean oil down through the inline filter. One foot outside the cowling is a split in the hose where the line for external tank connects. I will use this connector to purge the line to the external tank. At that time I will check the oil coming out of the line to the engine. It should be good oil. If so I will plug it off before doing the line to the tank. I will air-bleed the connector at reassembly.

I've calculated that approx. 1pt of oil is in the line between the engine and the external oil tank. This would provide enough clean oil for around 8 gals of gas before the bad oil gets to the engine. I ran approximately 5 gals of gas with the bad oil in the external tank so the engine should be unaffected.

My plan is to empty, flush and re-fill the external oil tank then do the oil lines. When I separate the oil line I will hopefully get one or two bulbs of clean oil coming from the external tank before the contaminated oil starts coming out. If so I will not have to purge the oil line to the engine.

Once there is clean oil/no air in the oil line I will re-assemble and run it on the hose to check/reset the oil indicator sensor for proper oil pickup and flow. I will post the results.

Thank you all again for your concern and suggestions.

 

[boobie]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

After you get all the oil lines and ect cleaned you may want to start it on a flusher, look in your owners or service manual and run it through the winterization cycle a few times and let it smoke real good. I'd probably do it 4-5 times as it's using extra oil.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

The OEM shop manual details the correct purging technique for the oil system and it's not what you are planning. Have fun.

 

[boobie]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

If you haven't got a lap top on initial start up when mtr is new you use the winterization procedure. It does the same thing as having a lap to purge the oiling system. Been there.

 

[Ancloter]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

If you haven't got a lap top on initial start up when mtr is new you use the winterization procedure. It does the same thing as having a lap to purge the oiling system. Been there.

Thank you, I was considering this. But I don't believe the engine ever ran without oil and the oil lines on the engine show clean oil. So I believe the contamination is in the oil line at the external tank end. I've emptied the oil tank and am about to add fresh oil, split the oil line and purge it IAW the Operator's Guide instructions which is to disconnect at the external oil line coupling and pump the bulb until fresh oil come out -as stated in my previous post.

http://www.operatorsguides.brp.com/...ang=E&s1=7eaad315-4c12-485a-9d3a-b24353fa21af

Excerpt, Operator's Guide, Pg. 20:

"Anytime the oil supply hose has
been disconnected, you must prime the oil
system to remove any air in the system before
operating the outboard.
Squeeze oil primer bulb until steady stream of
oil comes from the supply hose. Connect oil
supply hose to the oil inlet fitting. Secure with
the small clamp (13.8 mm) from owner?s kit.

After securing connection, squeeze oil primer
bulb again until solid oil appears in all six individual
oil lines entering the crankcase."

I'll see how this goes and will post the results.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

This forum is a pretty friendly place. There is a lot of generosity, both in help offered and tolerance for those who seem to want to live in a world of their own.

I'm sorry to feel a need to say that your actions do not speak to me of a person who makes good judgements, especially if you have 25+ years experience working on outboards. Further, you have received good advice here and have chosen to disregard it, instead telling everyone what you intend to do.

So, the question is, did you really start the thread for advice, or merely to tell everyone how to "fix" an e-tec that you have knowingly run with contaminated oil?

 

[Ancloter]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

This forum is a pretty friendly place.

Okay, so let's not flame the guy with the engine problem then....

Further, you have received good advice here and have chosen to disregard it, instead telling everyone what you intend to do.

Because that advice was based upon the assumption that contaminated oil had entered the engine. As I've pointed out several times the oil lines in the engine compartment have clean oil. The contaminated oil did not reach the engine. That is why I disregarded the advice which was based upon contaminated oil entering the engine.

So, the question is, did you really start the thread for advice, or merely to tell everyone how to "fix" an e-tec that you have knowingly run with contaminated oil?

What's wrong with both? Is it wrong for the thread to be used, as I stated earlier "to bring the engine online using the least potential for current or future damage"? Or is this simply a forum for ego flexing and tut-tutting over someone else's misfortune at their expense?

Btw, I've used advice from seahorse5, boobie and wilde1j. They have been helpful.

Thank you for your concern.

 

[Ancloter]

Re: E-Tec Run On Contaminated Oil -Possible Engine Damage?

After you get all the oil lines and ect cleaned you may want to start it on a flusher, look in your owners or service manual and run it through the winterization cycle a few times and let it smoke real good. I'd probably do it 4-5 times as it's using extra oil.

Thank you for the advice. I've completed repairs and the engine is running with a great deal of oil already from the oil purging.

I encountered an excessive oil issue following the Operator's Guide instructions for purging the oil line. I removed a cylinder line high on the engine and purged the oil line by squeezing the oil bulb 1/2 down x 75 times. It was hard to depress the bulb but oil would flow out the top hose. After reconnecting the cylinder oil line and hooking up a hose the engine would not turn over. After about 10 times on good batteries it was an "uh-oh" moment. I pulled the plugs and cranked it over. Oil sprayed out of the #5 and #6 cylinders. It took 2-revolution cranks x 10 times to remove the excess oil from the cylinders. I checked cylinder pressures (checking for any head damage from oil-lock) and the cylinder pressures were all within +/- 5% of 110psi. I reassembled and it fired right up but it smoked a great deal. It continued to smoke for about 20 mins and also whenever the idle was advanced above 1000RPM. I found that by squeezing the oil bulb during operation more oil would enter the engine and it'd smoke more. So, it's "smoking real good" for sure. I suspect it may have even kicked-in a high-oil cycle following restoration of the oil supply. I am most impressed with the e-TEC having its oil sensor at the oil pickup. This is what saved my engine as there was enough clean XD100 in the engine and oil line to run approx. 10+ gallons of gas once the oil tank was contaminated. Since I only ran 6 gal.s of gas the contaminated oil never reached the engine.

Lastly the Operators Guide oil line purge instructions might need a line about removing oil from #5 and #6 following the purge. Other than that things were straight forward. I spent about 10 hr.s total on it.

Thanks for the advice to you and everyone who assisted on this.