Edelbrock 1409/2114 on stock 4.3L Vortec engine

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flynnhart1

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I?ve seen a lot of posts here from people asking if anyone has changed from a 2-barrel carburetor to a 4-barrel carburetor on a stock 4.3L Vortec engine. My boat is a 1997 Sea Ray 185BR with the Mercruiser 4.3LX Gen+ engine. According to the Mercruiser Service Manual #18, 4.3LX refers to the 2-barrel setup and 4.3LXH refers to the 4-barrel setup. It appears that Gen+ refers to the Vortec heads. So, to make a long story short, I have the 4.3L engine with the 2-barrel carburetor and Vortec heads. As a 4-barrel carburetor was a factory option from Mercruiser and the Edelbrock 1409 is basically an exact copy of the original Weber 4-barrel option (AKA: Carter AFB) I felt that making this changeover was something that would work nicely. My engine was factory stock with the 2-barrel/Vortec setup when I decided to convert it to a 4-barrel setup. I installed an Edelbrock 1409 (4-barrel) carburetor with the 1485 calibration kit and an Edelbrock 2114 manifold on the engine. Everything else is stock. I checked the engine compression and vacuum before doing this modification to help me convince myself that this was a healthy stock engine. All cylinder compression ratios were in the 170-180 range. Installation was really straightforward with the exception that I needed to grind a small amount of metal off of the rear engine lift bracket to get the manifold on. I could have elected to leave the bracket off, however, as it also holds the main wiring harness in place I opted to grind a clearance in it so that I could reuse the bracket. Five minutes with my air grinder and it was as good as factory. I installed the original Mercruiser 4-barrel throttle cable bracket and the Mercruiser 4-barrel steel fuel line (again, I could have opted to fabricate something else but I wanted this to be as close to factory as possible). I also installed a K&N spark arrestor, the updated GM intake manifold gaskets (very important IMO), and a new thermostat kit.

So, now for the verdict. The stock Mercruiser horsepower rating for my 2-barrel setup is 190HP. The Mercruiser rating for the 4-barrel is 205HP. Edelbrock told me it is probably closer to 220HP with their carburetor/manifold (I would say that 30HP from a carb/manifold is optimistic). The boat runs very well overall and I would say that the biggest gain was in throttle response, especially in the cruise to WOT range. If I?m cruising along at say 3000 RPM and I nail it, the response is noticeably improved. Out of the hole power is also noticeably improved, however, not as much as the cruise to WOT response. Top end is the basically the same (top end speed is mostly dictated by the propeller characteristics, not the carburetor). The engine starts immediately, idle is very smooth, and there are no hesitations or surges anywhere. Gas mileage should not be much worse as up to ? throttle, the carburetor is using only the primaries so below WOT operation it is only running on 2 barrels.

Was it all worth it? This is a question that can only be answered by each individual that opts to make this change. It was not cheap by any means. Possibly it makes the boat somewhat unique and may improve eventual resale value in that the vast majority of 4.3L engines have the 2-barrel setup. All I can say is that I am happy with the way the engine runs.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Re: Edelbrock 1409/2114 on stock 4.3L Vortec engine

Sounds like a job well done... And welcome to iBoats...

Chris....
 

Mariah180

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Re: Edelbrock 1409/2114 on stock 4.3L Vortec engine

Thinking of the same, as my stock 2bbl is having issues.

The throttle cable bracket was my not concern. But you say there is a stock 4bbl cable and it works easy.
 

flynnhart1

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Re: Edelbrock 1409/2114 on stock 4.3L Vortec engine

Thinking of the same, as my stock 2bbl is having issues.

The throttle cable bracket was my not concern. But you say there is a stock 4bbl cable and it works easy.

No, I meant to say that there is a stock 4 barrel throttle cable bracket. The two barrel bracket does not fit on the edelbrock 1409 as the carburetor mounting bolts are wider on the 4 barrel carb than the two barrel. With the 4 barrel bracket the stock throttle cable fit and worked perfectly. I suppose one could do some fabricating and make a bracket but like I said I wanted to make it as factory stock as possible. I can post the complete list of parts (including part numbers) I used to make this conversion if you wish.

BTY - the stock steel 2 barrel fuel line also does not fit to the 4 barrel carb. One could change to a flexible line but USCG rules require a steel one.
 

Bondo

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Re: Edelbrock 1409/2114 on stock 4.3L Vortec engine

No, I meant to say that there is a stock 4 barrel throttle cable bracket. The two barrel bracket does not fit on the edelbrock 1409 as the carburetor mounting bolts are wider on the 4 barrel carb than the two barrel. With the 4 barrel bracket the stock throttle cable fit and worked perfectly. I suppose one could do some fabricating and make a bracket but like I said I wanted to make it as factory stock as possible. I can post the complete list of parts (including part numbers) I used to make this conversion if you wish.

BTY - the stock steel 2 barrel fuel line also does not fit to the 4 barrel carb. One could change to a flexible line but USCG rules require a steel one.

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,... Please do post any, 'n All the Info ya can,...

That's what makes life easier for future posters that find Us by searchin' for these cans of answers,...

More Info, is Always Better,....

Btw,... I don't believe the CG Requires steel, but recommends it,..
 

flynnhart1

Seaman Apprentice
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Re: Edelbrock 1409/2114 on stock 4.3L Vortec engine

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,... Please do post any, 'n All the Info ya can,...

That's what makes life easier for future posters that find Us by searchin' for these cans of answers,...

More Info, is Always Better,....

Btw,... I don't believe the CG Requires steel, but recommends it,..

I stand corrected on the fuel line, thanks for pointing that out. Bottom line is, I was trying to stay with as factory stock as I could (definitely not the least expensive way to go). That being said, for those that are interested, here is the list of parts I installed with prices, part #?s, and vendors as applicable:

Edelbrock 1409 Marine Carburetor = $277.99 (from EBay)
Edelbrock 1485 Calibration Kit = $27.90 (from Summit Racing)
Edelbrock 2114 Intake Manifold = $217.99
ACDelco Intake Manifold Gasket Kit (part # 89017866) = $53.49 (from Amazon)
Edelbrock manifold bolts = $27.98 (from Jeg?s)
Edelbrock carburetor studs = $9.95 (from Summit Racing)
Mercruiser fuel line (part # 32-807629T) = $42.81 (from EBay)
Mercruiser throttle bracket (part # 805359T) = $46.39 (from MarineMax)
K&N spark arrestor = $80.71 (from E Trade Intl LLC)
Thermostat kit = $20.00 (from Busters marine)
Thermostat sleeve = $8.68
Throttle bracket bolts = $18.93 (from iBoats)
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Re: Edelbrock 1409/2114 on stock 4.3L Vortec engine

As the manifold is aluminium, I assume you are in freshwater...
 

Volphin

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Re: Edelbrock 1409/2114 on stock 4.3L Vortec engine

As the manifold is aluminium, I assume you are in freshwater...

Let's hope so. :) But if used for saltwater or brackish water, there are extra ports on the 2114 that allow for anode installation.
 

flynnhart1

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Re: Edelbrock 1409/2114 on stock 4.3L Vortec engine

That is correct. I was aware of issues with aluminum in fresh water when I made the conversion. I live in Arizona. Not much sea coast here (unless California has the big one - LOL). Colorado River, Lake Havasu, Lake Powell, etc, lots of freshwater in Az to keep us happy.
 

flynnhart1

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OK, so I've had the Edelbrock 1409 carburetor, 2114 manifold setup on my 1997 Sea Ray 185BR with the 4.3LX Vortec engine for awhile now. I wanted to share my present setup and performance. I bought a brand new Edelbrock 1409 carburetor and 2114 manifold and installed them with all of the Mercruiser factory gas lines, throttle brackets, etc. I wanted this to be as close to the factory Weber 4bbl option as possible. As an FYI, the Mercruiser Weber carburetor is basically a 60?s era Carter AFB and the Edelbrock 1409 is basically the same as the Weber/Carter. The Edelbrock 1409 is manufactured by Weber USA which is owned by Magneti Marelli (which is stamped on the side of the 1409 carburetor). Note I say they are basically the same. There are very subtle differences, the metering rods, and step up springs being one. I installed the Edelbrock 1485 tuning kit in the carburetor. The engine ran pretty well with that setup but IMO, was lean on takeoff, mid range and top end. Of note, I found an old Edelbrock 1485 tuning kit manual that stated it was for non-Vortec 4.3 engines. They have since updated that documentation to state that it is for 4.3 Vortex engines as well. IMO, the 1485 kit runs lean on 4.3 Vortec engines. My 4.3 is a very solid engine with 173 - 180 psi compression on all cylinders, 17" hg of vacuum at idle, burns no oil, etc. I have tweaked the carburetor and at present I am very pleased with the performance. My present carburetor setting is as follows: 0.092" X 0.089" jets, 1461 rods (0.065" x 0.057"), pink springs (7" Hg), 0.033" pump squirters, pump lever on 3rd hole (closest to carb), accelerator pump set to 7/16' height. Of note, the accelerator pump height setting is very important. My carburetor was off by 1/8?. The 1409/Weber/Carter carburetors are famous for off idle stumble. Edelbrock techs just tell you to put the pump lever in the third hole (closest to carb). In my particular case, this was not enough. By re-adjusting the accelerator pump to 7/16? and changing the squirters to 0.033?, off idle acceleration stumble is gone. With this setup the engine is quite happy. I can get on plane in < 3 seconds, and the engine pulls strong all the way to top end (4800 RPM; > 50 MPH). No flat spots anywhere. I?m very happy with this present setup. I'll post again after I have run this setup a little longer.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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How did you select the main and secondary jets? 'Colortune' spark plug or some way of exhaust gas analysing?

Chris.....
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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thanks for coming back and giving us an update
 

GA_Boater

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Good update, flynn. It's nice to see a follow up report. :thumb:
 

flynnhart1

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I selected the jet sizes based on how I felt the engine was running and Weber specs on page 5C-2 of the Mercruiser Service Manual #18 which specs 0.092 x 0.089 jets for the LXH Alpha Gen+ engine. I believe the Gen+ means Vortec engines. I mostly felt the engine was lean in the off idle to power mode transition and I felt that the pump circuit, mains and rods were the place to focus on so I tried to mimic that Weber setup.

Of interesting note - According to this Carter AFB tuning guide - http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/AFBtuningtips.htm, the S link that attaches the pump arm to the pump plunger has to go on a certain way.

Pump link installation

?This is the little "S" shaped link that connects the accelerator pump rocker arm to the accelerator pump.

The link is constructed with a bend in the middle.

When properly installed, the link will resemble the letter "S" if viewed from the front, NOT a reverse "S".

If viewed from the throttle side of the carburetor, when the lower portion of the link is vertical, the upper portion will be leaning toward the rear of the carburetor.

I know a picture is better, but my digital camera works best outside, and the temperature is less than optimal.

Installing the link backwards will result in the necessity of much greater pressure to depress the footfeed, and also premature failure of the accelerator pump.?

I looked at my 1409 carb and the S link was not installed a per the above instructions. It was backwards. I installed the S link the way it is described above and the pump action is noticeably smoother. I looked at pictures of the Performer Series carburetors on Edelbrock?s site and all of the pictures show the S link installed backwards. I looked at the exploded parts view on page 20 of the Edelbrock carb owners manual and it shows the S link oriented correctly. IMO, the diagram on page 20 originated from old Carter AFB/ Weber documentation. It would be interesting to find out how the S link is installed on other 1409 owners carbs. Anyone?
 

Commerx

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Hoping for some guidance here Thinking about replacing the original Carb on my 4.3 l mercruiser, 2004, 2 barrel, carb no electric best I can tell. Carbs never and I mean never been touched cleaned rebuilt etc. What I have read indicates the Edelbrook 1409 Marine Carb is probabbly easiest and least involved to replace it. Have read i need new intakes?, a Edelbrook Tuning Kit, Fuel Line upgrade Needed ? 4 Barrel edelbrook fuel line bracket ANy suggestions and thoughts Thanks in advance
 

GA_Boater

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Hoping for some guidance here Thinking about replacing the original Carb on my 4.3 l mercruiser, 2004, 2 barrel, carb no electric best I can tell. Carbs never and I mean never been touched cleaned rebuilt etc. What I have read indicates the Edelbrook 1409 Marine Carb is probabbly easiest and least involved to replace it. Have read i need new intakes?, a Edelbrook Tuning Kit, Fuel Line upgrade Needed ? 4 Barrel edelbrook fuel line bracket ANy suggestions and thoughts Thanks in advance

Start a new thread instead of posting in an inactive thread from 2015

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